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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on August 19, 2007, at 16:16:42
In reply to Re: Do we actually know one another at all? » Quintal, posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 19, 2007, at 4:21:25
I think I'd better redirect this to Social lest I stand accused of hijacking the thread.
It's called Mackem, apparently from the ship-building days of the Tyneside docks, explained more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackem
I think that Yorkshire Ripper tape was exposed as a hoax in the 80s because people in Sunderland recognized the Mackem accent, but of course cops in London and Yorkshire mistook it for Geordie. So that's your helping of Quintal's useless trivia for today.
>Now, I don't have an accent - its simply a matter of survival - nobody would understand me if I were to put on a proper accent either!
I put on a standard English accent when I'm speaking to people outside my village - it's the same thing, most people just wouldn't understand me if I spoke with the full accent. I've never really spoken the dialect, but my dad does, as do most other people over a certain age. In fact he sometimes struggles to express himself in standard English. It reminds me a bit of the Welsh and the Irish with their Gaelic, the younger ones are sort of bilingual aren't they? Yet some of their elders have only a basic grasp of English. I think most people of my age round here grew up understanding the dialect, but they only speak it to take the piss out of their elders. It's done tongue in cheek on certain occasions but not really used for everyday speech.
My accent wanders really, it changes considerably depending on who I'm talking to. Around 'posh' people it sounds very coarse and I feel slightly embarrassed of it, my friend who went to Uni (even though it was Newcastle University) felt the same way and she made a great effort to change it. To people from my own area I'm considered a bit 'hoyty-toyty', but if you could hear them talk you'd understand that nearly anything would sound posh in comparison.
>Anyway, where does the name georgie come from? Is it related to the fact that its in England, thus St George stuff? Hmmm. Hey, where does the accent change - I have a friend from Selkirk and he has a fine borders accent. There must be like a place with a scottish/georgie hybrid accent comes in? Somewhere like Jedburgh? Nah, thats borders land. Hmmm.
As usual, Wiki explains it better than I:
____________________________________________________Geordie generally refers to a person from the Tyneside region in northeast England, in particular the city of Newcastle and the adjacent areas, or to the dialect of English spoken by these people. Geordie has many, many various references of from Newspapers to video footage of originally representing the whole of the northeast for at least the last 180 years.
'Outside this region, the term Geordie is the popular choice in referring to anyone from the North East, although this may now be incorrect to some people, the people of Sunderland inparticular may find this offensive.'
When referring to the people, as opposed to the dialect, a definition of a Geordie is "someone born or brought up around the River Tyne communities" so this means North Tyneside (Wallsend, North Shields, Whitley Bay) (Walker), South Tyneside (Jarrow, Hebburn, South Shields, Boldon), Gateshead, Newcastle, etc. akin to the way a Cockney is defined as "someone born within hearing distance of the Bow bells." As the Cockney definition has been taken to mean within three miles of the church of St Mary-le-Bow on Cheapside, the Geordie definition, by some, has been taken to mean only Tyneside. Another interpretation includes former areas of County Durham and Northumberland, including Ryton, Washington, etc. It must be noted that this particular defination of around the Tyne communities was not always the case, as Geordie has been documented for at least 180 years as meaning the whole of the North East of England. Though over the past 15 years people from Sunderland have accepted the term Mackem.
Geordie arguably derives much less influence from Old French and Latin than does Standard English, being substantially Angle tribe and Danish Viking in origin. The accent and pronunciation, as in Lowland Scots known as "Inglis", reflect more clearly old Angle pronunciations, accents and usages. There are also some pre-Anglo Saxon Brythonic influences as well. For example, Geordies are more likely to say "mam" (/mæm/) than the usual English "mum" (/mʌm/) or the more Gaelic "ma".
'Geordie' is widely perceived as one of the most distinctive (and, by outsiders, incomprehensible) of English accents. Citizens of Newcastle and the surrounding area have been accused of exaggerating their distinctive dialect for comic effect, or to bamboozle non-Geordies.
Pronunciation of personal pronouns differs markedly from Standard English: Geordies use "yous" (IPA: [juz]) for plural "you", "me" (/mi/) for "my", "uz" (/ʌz/) for "me", "wor" (/wɔ:/) when emphasised) "our", which probably comes from the Scandinavian word "vår" /ʋɔr/meaning "our". The word "wor" is sometimes placed before the given name of the person being the subject of conversation to denote that they are a family member, for example "wor Allan" or "wor da" (father). It is also quite common for Geordies to use the word "man" for both men and women (which probably derives from the Angle word "man" meaning "person"), as in "howay man" (meaning "come on you"), or even "howay man woman"! Another common variant (which usually causes complete confusion to non-Geordies) is the phrase "How man woman man!" (which is used to either get someone's attention or, more commonly, express exasperation at the subject)
Vowel sounds are also quite unusual.
* "er" on the end of words becomes "a" (/æ/) ("father" is pronounced "fatha", both "a" sounds as in "hat").
* Many "a" sounds become more like "e" (/ɛ/): "hev" (/hɛv/) for "have" and "thet" for "that".
* Double vowels are often pronounced separately as diphthongs: "boat" becomes (/buət/) and "bait" becomes (/biʲət/).
* Some words acquire extra vowels e.g "growel" (/groʊʷɛl/) for "growl", "cannet" (/kænɛt/) for "can't"). This property of the dialect has led Geordie to be known for putting as many vowels as possible into a word.
* The "or" sound in words like "talk" becomes "aa" (/a:/ or /æ:/) hence "walk" becomes "waak" (/wa:k/ or /wæ:k/).
* "er" sounds in words like "work" becomes "or" (/wɔ:k/).
* The "ow" in words like "down" or, most famously, "town" becomes "oo" (/u:/), hence "the Toon" meaning 'the town' (Newcastle). In Sunderland which is on Wearside estuary, the "oo" in words like "cook", "book" or "look" becomes "uu" (/ʏ/), although this accent has come to be known as Mackem, not Geordie. This does, however, apply to some extent on some Geordie accents, with the exception of the word "look". A common phrase that Geordies utter to illustrate this when discussing their accent with non-Geordies is "Captain Hook's cook book".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geordie
__________________________________________________Someone said that the Mackem accent clips I posted were unintelligible, so I found some more that might just be decipherable to foreigners. As usual they contain strong language from the outset, and are not suitable for people who are easily offended, but others may find them 'entertaining'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt7g9D24f9II love the lyrics of the music on this one(!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f26-y523wIs&mode=related&search=I was watching this spoof video of Mel B yesterday and reminded me of how you (mis?)-pronounce 'sell' 'sen' in Yorkshire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMSU7KWR6cA&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44Pm-lmlorY&mode=related&search=Q
Posted by Quintal on August 19, 2007, at 18:12:22
In reply to Accent vs Dialect/Sen vs Sell » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Quintal on August 19, 2007, at 16:16:42
I just did a search on YouTube and it seems someone has posted clips of that 80s comedy 'Rita, Sue and Bob Too' that we were talking about back in May: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20070421/msgs/754995.html
Anyway, so here they are:
A relatively tame clip of Rita and Sue dancing to Bananarama:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FCDQu91xRk&mode=related&search=Bob can't get it up (*bare bum scene trigger*):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNl_GYJlH0I&mode=related&search=We're avin' a g*ng bang:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbtbBQYMmV4&mode=related&search=Rita and Sue get owned, *strong language trigger*:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9HfkhaiGAg&mode=related&search=This reminds me a bit of my dad. I'm so, so, glad I got away *very strong triggers*:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J8p_h2gwJM&mode=related&search=Q
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 20, 2007, at 14:03:57
In reply to Accent vs Dialect/Sen vs Sell » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Quintal on August 19, 2007, at 16:16:42
Ey up,
Now then, we say 'sen' like you say 'sell' ? Or do ya t'mean 'sell' proper like?
Hey - its been a long time - I think your accent switching accurately describes me, although to be fair, I'm not sure I had all that of a strong accent to begin with, but it were plenty strong enough at uni like t' make me want t'change it love!
Do you know, I got introduced to 'sen' whilst on a school trip when I was 17? You would have thought that living where I did I'd have come across it sooner. But no. I'm abit miffed I don't have a nice proper accent!
So you say, 'lower yoursell down' in stead of 'lower yoursen down'? I suppose so. I read up about Yorkshire accents on wiki and i didn't even realise that we say 'I aren't feeling too well' when it should be 'I'm not feeling too well' - there's the whole 'I aren't' instead of the 'I'm not'.
Oh well. So you speak Machum or Georgie? We used to go 'why and aye' for some reason in a georgie accent at school. We all thought you were supercool because you had Biker Grove.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 20, 2007, at 14:16:58
In reply to I Found 'Rita, Sue and Bob Too' Clips! *triggers*, posted by Quintal on August 19, 2007, at 18:12:22
I really wanna watch it! I can't even access the youtube clips properly because my internet connection is abit weird.
Oh well.
Maybe when I'm back in the UK I can get it out on DVD....
Posted by Quintal on August 21, 2007, at 21:27:26
In reply to Re: Accent vs Dialect/Sen vs Sell, posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 20, 2007, at 14:03:57
>Now then, we say 'sen' like you say 'sell' ? Or do ya t'mean 'sell' proper like?
Whee aye, man! Ah's just gunna finish this post then al' get me sell up't wooden hill and te bed, like.
>Do you know, I got introduced to 'sen' whilst on a school trip when I was 17? You would have thought that living where I did I'd have come across it sooner. But no. I'm abit miffed I don't have a nice proper accent!
I'm still discovering new words and expressions too! Jealous is a recent one. "Ah cud ah jealoused that tha knarrs/I could have guess that you know/I thought as much etc" would be one example. "Heisther" is another. I have no idea what it actually means, or any clue to its origins, but I've noticed my dad will use this word in exclamation, "Heisther that, yer bugger yer!/My goodness, look at that, dear sir!". Communication with the village elders involves a certain amount of interpretation and guesswork.
>I read up about Yorkshire accents on wiki and i didn't even realise that we say 'I aren't feeling too well' when it should be 'I'm not feeling too well' - there's the whole 'I aren't' instead of the 'I'm not'.
Whee ah disent knarr about that, like. Ah dinnert dee it me sell, like, but me fatther dis on many an occasion.
>Do you speak Machum or Georgie? We used to go 'why and aye' for some reason in a georgie accent at school. We all thought you were supercool because you had Biker Grove.
I speak Mackem, well I have the accent but I don't speak the dialect. My mother wouldn't allow it. My aunt moved from here to Bradford when she was 19 and now has a broad Yorkshire accent. My uncle always teases me that I have a Geordie accent, and it used to annoy me because we don't think of 'oursells' as being Geordies. I didn't know what we actually were until a few months ago when I saw that article on Wiki. There aren't really any true Mackem videos on YouTube, the Yorkshire Ripper hoax is the nearest, but even that sounds a bit Geordie to my ears: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRRp77pk09M
Q
Posted by Quintal on November 2, 2007, at 16:54:31
In reply to Re: I Found 'Rita, Sue and Bob Too' Clips! *trigge » Quintal, posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 20, 2007, at 14:16:58
Ode to Meri
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-EGl3YHQ9CM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CVs0PQwhGXg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrX-lqp3yVELove Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L9_8vwx2w8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEkyaoPdar8Jon
Q
xXx
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