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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 6, 2011, at 14:53:13
Do you have to listen to people talk down to you about "life" when you mention the problems you're having and they're not? I mentioned to my sister on the phone that my concentration difficulties were coming back and I was hoping to get some relief at my next pdoc visit. Well, she swept aside my explanation for what was going on (ADD), and proceeded to tell me (as she's done before) how everyone has troubles, everyone sometimes dislikes their work -- but, apparently, everyone else just sucks it up and deals with it. This is not the first time we've had this discussion, and, in fact, she prefaced it with "I know this is probably going to make you mad to hear, but..." After that failed to impress me, she goes on about how, actually, she has the exact problem that I have, despite appearances to the contrary. She has the exact same problem, but, she figured out how to deal with it. She solved it by changing her thought patterns/talking to god/changing jobs/whatever. Whatever she did because she was going to do anyway -- that was the secret to solving my/our problem. Here was my younger sister, teaching me the facts of life like I'm some innocent babe and she is some wise, worldly elder. Do you find that you can't talk about your mental health problems to a family member without them acting as if because they don't have that problem, that they can speak for all sane people and try to teach you the things that you obviously don't know? It just adds insult to the injury that you are already suffering with.
Posted by SLS on April 6, 2011, at 17:54:47
In reply to Condescension, posted by mtdewcmu on April 6, 2011, at 14:53:13
> Do you have to listen to people talk down to you about "life" when you mention the problems you're having and they're not?
You might be forced to hear her, but you don't have to listen to her.
I have had to suffer ignorance on the part of people who are not enlightened to the phenomena of mood brain disorders. The first place to start is to be confident in what you know to be true. You can then either ignore the lack of understanding or challenge her to research ADD for herself. You might even provide printed material or Web links. Tell her that it is important to you that she understand what you are challenged with.
Some people like to lecture others. It is the mode of interaction that they are comfortable with. I don't know. Maybe write a letter?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 6, 2011, at 19:35:19
In reply to Condescension, posted by mtdewcmu on April 6, 2011, at 14:53:13
Yup my grown kids. I have no problems it's all in my mind even diagnosed physical problems. Phillipa
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 6, 2011, at 20:33:56
In reply to Condescension, posted by mtdewcmu on April 6, 2011, at 14:53:13
Eh, these "normal" people, taking comfort in their lack of vulnerability and ultimate control... Must be good.
There is no shortage of controversy about things considered psychological, and stigma still reigns.
I simply don't discuss much.
I once told a friend that I took an antidepressant, and she said "ohhhh, you don't need that!" as if the use of it was some insult to myself.
I've no firm opinion about myself, but that changes with my mental state.
Take care
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 6, 2011, at 23:12:19
In reply to Re: Condescension » mtdewcmu, posted by SLS on April 6, 2011, at 17:54:47
> > Do you have to listen to people talk down to you about "life" when you mention the problems you're having and they're not?
>
> You might be forced to hear her, but you don't have to listen to her.
>
> I have had to suffer ignorance on the part of people who are not enlightened to the phenomena of mood brain disorders. The first place to start is to be confident in what you know to be true. You can then either ignore the lack of understanding or challenge her to research ADD for herself. You might even provide printed material or Web links. Tell her that it is important to you that she understand what you are challenged with.Thanks, Scott. She studied some psychology in college. I don't think it's that she doesn't believe in ADD, I think it's just that she doesn't think I could possibly have it.
Posted by hyperfocus on April 7, 2011, at 5:10:17
In reply to Condescension, posted by mtdewcmu on April 6, 2011, at 14:53:13
Condescension, sure. I've had to endure the "it's all in your head / snap yourself out of it" monologue more times than I can remember, from multiple family members. It gets a lot worse than that, unfortunately, outside of your family. At least one manager of mine called me lazy. Then it can go to the other extreme. Apparently for some people finding out you take psych meds is worse than having a criminal record. It's getting much better now though because so many adults are being put on meds, for better or worse. But condescension and stigma are just two indignities, out of many, you're going to need to bear with from other people, even people who are closest to you.
But the people who really care about you will see you're in pain and have a genuine illness, I think. The rest don't matter. Even among MI patients there can be some level of condescension: if you've never had paranoia it's very hard to understand how somebody else feels, even if you have to deal with ADD or depression or something else.
If you have empathy and compassion for other people - and having MI in many cases will add to what's already there - then the best you can do is be compassionate towards her. It's hard for her to understand mental illness because she's never had it. It's hard for doctors too - if you're arm was broken they could see the fracture in an Xray, but there's no scanning technology for ADD or paranoia yet. So I guess all you can do is be compassionate towards those who care but don't understand. Just tell her and anyone else that regardless of how they feel about your illness, you need their support and love because that's what family is about
Being down the well teaches you a lot of things. Hopefully when you're above ground again those lessons will benefit you.
Posted by emmanuel98 on April 7, 2011, at 19:35:26
In reply to Re: Condescension » mtdewcmu, posted by hyperfocus on April 7, 2011, at 5:10:17
I suffer frequently from severe depression. I try to hide it from my husband and friends, although they are not condescending, just baffled. I have a friend who recently started having major depression. All her friends and family told her, go to the gym, get out, get busy, snap out of it. I listen to her and try to empathize, because I have been there many times.
Still, after several weeks, I experienced her depression as a kind of abandonment. She was so caught up in the experience that she barely thought or asked about me. I think this is the hard part for people with MI. Others don't understand and see your problems as a kind of abandonmentand self-absorbtion. My husband says I need to stop the self pity. But that's not really what it's about when you have MI.
Posted by Phillipa on April 7, 2011, at 19:47:05
In reply to Re: Condescension, posted by emmanuel98 on April 7, 2011, at 19:35:26
Well put. Abandonment hurts!!!! Phillipa
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 7, 2011, at 21:24:59
In reply to Re: Condescension » mtdewcmu, posted by hyperfocus on April 7, 2011, at 5:10:17
My sister is actually the one I consider closest to me, since neither of us get along very well with our parents. But I'm finding she can be more like them than I once thought, and my parents are actually more willing to be there for me than she is.
Oftentimes people with some experience of psychiatry can be the least understanding. When I first started seeing a pdoc, my sister decided she needed to see one too. She took Prozac for a while and actually got put on Ritalin without even having to ask! But eventually she stopped taking psych meds and going to therapy. My opinion is that she was never as bad off as I have been. I think she was just lonely for a while somewhere toward the end of college and before getting married, and it would have passed on its own. But she thinks that experience has taught her all she needs to know about mental illness. She believes that she cured herself and that makes her an expert. It's inconceivable to her that mine could be worse and more intractable.
I think believing everyone else's life is just like your own is a form of mental laziness.
But trying to convince her that my life is different is a catch-22. The more I protest that I've done everything possible, the more she thinks I'm being stubborn and in denial! There's no way to win. If my life got worse, she would just think it was from ignoring her advice. If I find a med that works and my life improves, then I could say, "look, I knew what I was doing and now I'm better." That would be wonderful. But at that point it would be moot because I wouldn't need compassion!
Posted by SLS on April 8, 2011, at 5:22:57
In reply to Re: Condescension, posted by emmanuel98 on April 7, 2011, at 19:35:26
> I have a friend who recently started having major depression. All her friends and family told her, go to the gym, get out, get busy, snap out of it.
Yes, but they forgot to suggest that she pull herself up by her bootstraps. Perhaps that would work.
I thought that the understanding of these illnesses by the public was greater 20 years ago than it is now. I don't know why.
> I listen to her and try to empathize, because I have been there many times.
>
> Still, after several weeks, I experienced her depression as a kind of abandonment.To your friend, it probably feels like the world - and perhaps God - has abandoned her.
> She was so caught up in the experience that she barely thought or asked about me.
There are many subtypes of depression, and it is experienced differently by everyone. It would be a mistake to compare your depression to your friend's. In addition, there might be important characterological differences between you and your friend that allow you to cope better with the illness.
- Scott
Posted by emmanuel98 on April 8, 2011, at 19:18:11
In reply to Re: Condescension » emmanuel98, posted by SLS on April 8, 2011, at 5:22:57
Actually, she copes much better than me. I get suicidal and end up in the hospital. She does not. But my feeling of abandonment made me realize how difficult my depression is for my husband and daughter. In fact, a year ago, my daughter was home from college after a break-up that was really hard on her. I spent two hours talking to her and letting her cry. The next night, I got home from work, saw the light was on in her bedroom and she was home. I had to take a couple of deep breaths and force myself upstairs to the apartment. I didn't want to deal with her depression. It's hard to deal with the depression of a loved one.
They are so unhappy and need so much care. The last time I got suicidal, my husband told me to go to the emergency room or he would call the police. He had just had enough and couldn't deal with it anymore.
> There are many subtypes of depression, and it is experienced differently by everyone. It would be a mistake to compare your depression to your friend's. In addition, there might be important characterological differences between you and your friend that allow you to cope better with the illness.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2011, at 19:44:18
In reply to Re: Condescension, posted by emmanuel98 on April 8, 2011, at 19:18:11
Oh wow how do you manage to work? Phillipa
Posted by mixdup on April 8, 2011, at 21:25:16
In reply to Condescension, posted by mtdewcmu on April 6, 2011, at 14:53:13
It can be very hard to understand people's or our own family members logic for their "snap out of it" speeches and while their intention my be good it is hard to accept that someone whom you care for is trying to make you better with a gym or a hobby or eat a high Carb no meat diet or eat 3 eggs and a Banana for breakfast and all your problems will magically go away ( people I knew once told me all of the above, I am no longer in touch with those people, and I am the crazy one?! LOL)
I can tell you no matter what your issue is, only you know you. And only you and your dr. know what is best for your treatment. I know how u are feeling I have had it happen before and as others have said you should just be honest and tell your sister or anyone while they have their opinion and you are OK with that. You deserve to be supported when you reach for help
I hope that things get better for you on all sides .
I would also like to tell you on a personal note that the people on here are great and have good ideas and advice and will listen and support you. Keep posting
-mixdup :-/
Posted by emmanuel98 on April 9, 2011, at 0:27:31
In reply to Re: Condescension » emmanuel98, posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2011, at 19:44:18
I am unemployed and have gone back to school right now. It is hard. I have a hard time getting myself to study. Someimes I feel that this is beyond my capabiities, that I simply lack the stamina to do this. I sink into these depressions and find it hard to pull myself back. OTOH, studying (when I can get myself to do it) helps focus my mind.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 9, 2011, at 14:33:17
In reply to Condescension, posted by mtdewcmu on April 6, 2011, at 14:53:13
Wow to everyone. This is an interesting thread.
Yeah, somehow I missed the standard issue bootstraps, too.
I see the anxiety my depression creates in my son. Because I am not as available--abandoning him despite my best efforts. Tough to endure that one.
I have also felt the unbearable weight of
a sibling's MI and of friends' depression. I realized at a certain point I had become too good and automatic a listener.And my hubby is toasted right now, poor guy :(
I finally had to shut some doors on some sibs. One wanted my support 24/7, and would become abusive when 'crossed'. Also left me flat after my child was born and the real fun began. I suppose my having a child was an abandonment, sadly.
Another sib lectured from morning to night about detoxing, removing my
fillings, not being a pharma-slave. I realized that sib couldn't bear depression (bipolar l) and was always in fix-it mode. Still loves me. I decided to be blunt as a way to salvedge. Luckily, this sib can do blunt :) So, no talk of fillings or Armageddon. Pristiq is not part of the
(inevitable) totalitarian enslavement of the masses (yet), and if the world goes down, I ain't digging a fallout shelter
(back issues). So if that makes me the
canary of this wacko family, there it is.
I'll die with my feathers on. (Guess that's why I missed the bootstraps; no boots for birds.)Humor helps me endure insensitivity,
ignorance, misunderstanding,
miscommunication. Reading this thread helps too.MtDew, family can get soooooo sticky :(
(hugs to you)fb
Posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2011, at 19:02:10
In reply to Re: Condescension, posted by emmanuel98 on April 9, 2011, at 0:27:31
I understand as posting with accuracy on ebay forces me also to concentrate. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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