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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 25, 2005, at 5:11:04
last summer (not the one just gone) people were trying to convince me not to go back to my old university. I got annoyed with what they were saying about it - and I went back. Mostly because I couldn't afford to move to another city and I had a substantial scholarship (and it was too late to apply for a comperable one at another institution) and because I had tutoring work guaranteed (and it was too late to apply to do that anywhere else). And for mental health reasons of course. I thought I would get treatment here. But that turned out to be an utter joke (all of last year anyway).
I didn't want to believe what they were saying...
I just thought they were being a bunch of snobs...But ever since then I have seen the point to what they were saying... I didn't want to face up to it. I didn't. But fact is: they were right.
There isn't anything here for me.
Nobody is interested in the topic I am into.
People are getting substantial research grants to study it all around the world... It is a hot topic at the moment... But nobody here even seems to get that. Nobody is interested or cares.They aren't even interested in what I am doing.
And as they know nothing about it I am paying a hell of a lot of money to have supervisors who function mainly as grammer checkers. They don't offer substantial criticisms and they can't tell me I have misunderstood so and so's position or tell me I need to read such and such.So I work on my own. But I shouldn't be doing that yet.
I told them I had taken on too much tutoring this year and I needed to cut back - give away a couple of classes in order to make it through the semester. That was at the beginning of the week. But they are having trouble finding anyone else to take them. I have to do them next week. I'll probably have to just keep doing them because there isn't anybody else.
They don't understand that it is easier for them to find somebody to take two tutorials now then it will be for them to find somebody to take nine tutorials later when I burn out and have to stop doing it altogether.
They don't understand that I have to finish my Masters. All they really seem to care about is getting the undergrad courses covered ok. But what about my work? It won't end up being half as good as it would have been if I had gone somewhere else... And that will reflect on me. And the institution again... In ever decreasing circles...
I just want to get the hell away from here.
But it is going to be hard to get in anywhere decent when all my grades and everything aren't worth sh*t because of the institution I received them from.I would have got those grades anywhere. I firmly believe that. I worked my *ss off. But it is also true that in the time I have been here I have seen people get amazingly high grades for work that simply wasn't that good.
So it is hard to know. It is hard to know what to make of it. And it devalues my qualification considerably.
They were right.
I cut my own throat coming back here.
:-(
Posted by rainbowbrite on March 27, 2005, at 17:58:27
In reply to Getting a bit annoyed..., posted by alexandra_k on March 25, 2005, at 5:11:04
Hi Alexandra
> last summer (not the one just gone) people were trying to convince me not to go back to my old university. I got annoyed with what they were saying about it - and I went back. Mostly because I couldn't afford to move to another city and I had a substantial scholarship (and it was too late to apply for a comperable one at another institution) and because I had tutoring work guaranteed (and it was too late to apply to do that anywhere else). And for mental health reasons of course. I thought I would get treatment here. But that turned out to be an utter joke (all of last year anyway).
Were they suggesting other possibilties for you?
> There isn't anything here for me.
> Nobody is interested in the topic I am into.
> People are getting substantial research grants to study it all around the world... It is a hot topic at the moment... But nobody here even seems to get that. Nobody is interested or cares.
Can you speak to someone about this? your supervisor?
> They aren't even interested in what I am doing.
> And as they know nothing about it I am paying a hell of a lot of money to have supervisors who function mainly as grammer checkers. They don't offer substantial criticisms and they can't tell me I have misunderstood so and so's position or tell me I need to read such and such.Im sorry Alex that sounds so frustrating, how much longer till you are finished?
> So I work on my own. But I shouldn't be doing that yet.
> I told them I had taken on too much tutoring this year and I needed to cut back - give away a couple of classes in order to make it through the semester. That was at the beginning of the week. But they are having trouble finding anyone else to take them. I have to do them next week. I'll probably have to just keep doing them because there isn't anybody else.Cant you just say no, they can't pull you away from your work...can they?
> They don't understand that it is easier for them to find somebody to take two tutorials now then it will be for them to find somebody to take nine tutorials later when I burn out and have to stop doing it altogether.can you explain that to someone? I know its so hard to find people who understand but maybe there is someone there that you could explain this to?
> They don't understand that I have to finish my Masters. All they really seem to care about is getting the undergrad courses covered ok. But what about my work? It won't end up being half as good as it would have been if I had gone somewhere else... And that will reflect on me. And the institution again... In ever decreasing circles...
I think you should put your foot down. It sounds really unfair! Try to find someone to speak to about this.....
> I just want to get the hell away from here.
> But it is going to be hard to get in anywhere decent when all my grades and everything aren't worth sh*t because of the institution I received them from.Haev you heard back form any schools?
> They were right.
> I cut my own throat coming back here.
> :-(Ok but at the time was there another option?
(((Alexandra)))
Take care
rain
Posted by gardenergirl on March 27, 2005, at 22:42:55
In reply to Re: Getting a bit annoyed..., posted by rainbowbrite on March 27, 2005, at 17:58:27
Ugh ugh ugh. As I learn more about PhD programs, I'm beginning to think it's like perpetual boot camp.
((((alexandraK))))
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on March 28, 2005, at 5:30:05
In reply to Re: Getting a bit annoyed..., posted by rainbowbrite on March 27, 2005, at 17:58:27
> Were they suggesting other possibilties for you?
Yeah. A general 'anywhere but there' (and one other place whose name I won't mention). But they had one particular place in mind. A supervisor even. He tried to ply be back there. But I told him I couldn't... Now he will probably be the one to mark my thesis :-(
> Can you speak to someone about this? your supervisor?I wouldn't know what to say. It isn't anything they are able to change. I would just be grumbling...
> Im sorry Alex that sounds so frustrating, how much longer till you are finished?Should be finished by the end of August. That is if I ever find the time to do it... Otherwise (if I don't get into the US) then I may as well take a bit more time and aim for (very) early next year.
> Cant you just say no, they can't pull you away from your work...can they?Well... If I don't do them, who will?? Students don't like to be f*cked around with changes in tutors. I guess that whoever takes the classes in the first week is kind of considered responsible for them thereafter... There really doesn't seem to be anyone else. I suppose in an emergency the lecturers would take them. But they don't take them as a matter of routine. No way.
We actually have a great deal of trouble finding tutors. Nobody seems to hang around till grad level (gee I wonder why). So sometimes third year students are recruited (we have a 3 year degree - not 4). I am in my 5th year so they figure me as senior. Anywhere else and they wouldn't even have me - typically you have to be a PhD student to tutor. But here I am senior. Go figure...
> can you explain that to someone? I know its so hard to find people who understand but maybe there is someone there that you could explain this to?Not without getting into the mental health thing (which must be avoided at all costs...) Otherwise I am just grumbling - like I have been doing all week.
> Haev you heard back form any schools?One rejection. One that I haven't heard back from yet. I won't be too disappointed if I don't get into that one. I'd kinda be better off in Australia than there to tell you the truth. I just like the idea of a 5 year program and more course work and the US :-)
Thanks.
I'll be okay...Maybe (if I don't get in and if therapy still isn't working out for me) I'll bugger off to that other place I should have gone to. I dare say that would help my Australian applications...
Posted by alexandra_k on March 28, 2005, at 5:37:35
In reply to Re: Getting a bit annoyed..., posted by gardenergirl on March 27, 2005, at 22:42:55
Thanks.
At the moment I just want to get into one.
The first rejection was hard. I really really really really really wanted to go there :-(
But it was comperable to one of the Uni's in Australia that I wouldn't mind getting in to (in terms of philosophy rankings).
The next is a bit lower down.
I hate to do that...
But if you want a chance at a job researching philosophy the end of the day you really do need to get into the best institution you can..
Then try to get a post-doctoral fellowship somewhere decent...They look at your uni affiliation when they consider papers for publication, you see.
It can be fairly clique (or whatever).
Half of the people who complete PhD programmes in the US (in philosophy) never get to work in the field.
MacDonalds.
Movie theatres.
I am serious.
Really.:-(
It is a scairey world out there...
And what is a philosopher supposed to do but research???
Posted by alexandra_k on March 28, 2005, at 5:38:35
In reply to Re: Getting a bit annoyed... » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on March 28, 2005, at 5:37:35
I could stay here and tutor.
Could probably turn it into something approaching a full time job.
:-(
:-(
:-(
Posted by alexandra_k on March 28, 2005, at 5:51:51
In reply to Re: I know..., posted by alexandra_k on March 28, 2005, at 5:38:35
Whats hard is that I am the head tutor for a course I have never even taken before. I never took it as an undergrad.
It is a fairly general course in critical thinking.
But I really am learning along with the students.
I am scaired about it because I don't know where the course is headed - in terms of telling them what important things to note etc are. Sometimes I find myself saying 'but don't worry about that' and then next week that becomes the focus. I missed doing something in the tut just before the test that they were tested on specifically. People lost marks because I forgot to tell them what standard form was and to emphasise YOU HAVE TO DRAW A LINE BEFORE THE CONCLUSION. I didn't think we were on to that yet. But it was my mistake. And people did worse because I didn't do my job properly.
And so I am feeling stressed and underqualified and so on... And I am taking 5 of the 9 tutorials for the course. So most people in the class get me and if I f*ck up most people suffer.
I don't want to do this anymore.
I shouldn't even be doing it.
I am not qualified.
And when I reflect on my being the most qualified I realise just what a joke this is.And as well as that I am taking half another course (which I have tutored before thank god). Not that I should have then, either...
Posted by rainbowbrite on March 29, 2005, at 1:27:11
In reply to Re: I know..., posted by alexandra_k on March 28, 2005, at 5:51:51
ugh how frustrating, Is it a small school you go to?
I dont know anythign about the way that tutoring works but dont they have to have two of you for a course? or are they small classes?
Keep trying for the US, if that is what you really want. Are there other schools you would consisder there?hang in there, soemthing will work out, becasue.... rain says it will :-)
take care
Posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 5:38:32
In reply to Re: I know... » alexandra_k, posted by rainbowbrite on March 29, 2005, at 1:27:11
> ugh how frustrating, Is it a small school you go to?
Not particularly. Just small with respect to grad students in my particular field. My uni is the 'place to go' (in NZ) for management, comp sci, evolutionary biology, math, and chemistry (according to the PBRF reports - which is taken very seriously. To do with publications or editorial involvement in (quality) peer reviewed journals, basically...)
> I dont know anythign about the way that tutoring works but dont they have to have two of you for a course?
Two of us for one of the courses.
Three of us for the other. But I am the 'head tutor' for that one. I am supposed to cover for the others - not the other way round. They won't take any of my tuts.>or are they small classes?
Not particularly. Though, to be fair it is psychology that pulls the big numbers in Arts and Social Sciences (maybe 300 in first year)... Nothing else does, really. Don't know the roll for this year... Last year the one I am head tutor for had 210 - we run 9 tutorial times. The other one has maybe 110 or something like that - and 8 tut times of which you have to attend 2.
> Keep trying for the US, if that is what you really want. Are there other schools you would consisder there?Nope. Not unless I can learn GRE math by osmosis. I am all done with US institutions. Applied to the only 2 that I would apply to (given the GRE thing). Nope. Australia is next on the list (though I am still waiting to hear on my other US application...)
> hang in there, soemthing will work out, becasue.... rain says it will :-)Yeah. I hope so. Just need a little faith...
Posted by rainbowbrite on March 29, 2005, at 7:59:47
In reply to Re: I know... » rainbowbrite, posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 5:38:32
> Two of us for one of the courses.
> Three of us for the other. But I am the 'head tutor' for that one. I am supposed to cover for the others - not the other way round. They won't take any of my tuts.
Oh right you did say that. Thats so kind of them
> Not particularly. Though, to be fair it is psychology that pulls the big numbers in Arts and Social Sciences (maybe 300 in first year)... Nothing else does, really. Don't know the roll for this year... Last year the one I am head tutor for had 210 - we run 9 tutorial times. The other one has maybe 110 or something like that - and 8 tut times of which you have to attend 2.It sounds like you are doing so many Alex! Im impressed you are managing so far.
> Nope. Not unless I can learn GRE math by osmosis. I am all done with US institutions. Applied to the only 2 that I would apply to (given the GRE thing). Nope. Australia is next on the list (though I am still waiting to hear on my other US application...)ive heard its possible :-) (kidding) well hopefully the other school will bring good news!
> Yeah. I hope so. Just need a little faith...
Well, I have faith in you!
:-)
ps- couldnt you just tell someone you are run down as oppose to mental health issues?
Posted by gardenergirl on March 29, 2005, at 16:12:36
In reply to Re: I know... » rainbowbrite, posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 5:38:32
>
> Nope. Not unless I can learn GRE math by osmosis. I am all done with US institutions. Applied to the only 2 that I would apply to (given the GRE thing). Nope. Australia is next on the list (though I am still waiting to hear on my other US application...)Have you tried the Kaplan GRE prep book and CD-ROM? I used that to brush up since it had been ages since I had taken any math classes. It really helped. It's not too expensive. You might even be able to snag a used copy on Amazon or eBay.
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 17:46:35
In reply to Re: I know... » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on March 29, 2005, at 16:12:36
They lost my application (which is why I hadn't been notified). And then:
>I have located your file, and all the notes regarding it. We had 260 applications, which were divided -- alphabetically -- into three groups.
Each group of 85 files was then read by one of our three committee members, with the mandate that s/he promote 10 of those to the final pile of 30, from which the entire committee would select 15 to whom we would offer admission [thats a lot more admissions than I thought...]. The person who read your file noted that it looked "very interesting," and promoted it to the final 20 (of 85) to which s/he gave careful examination. But in the end s/he wrote that it was a "near miss."
This means that it was not promoted to the final 30, though it also means that it was among the top 60 or so files that we received this year (assuming that quality of file is distributed roughly equally throughout the alphabet).And:
>As for your chances for next year: it's hard to say. I expect that the applicant-pool will be similar to the one we had this year -- a ridiculous number of highly-qualified applicants competing for a ridiculously small number of places. Any of our top 100 applicants is clearly capable of doing very good work in philosophy. But we are in the difficult situation of having to turn away 85% of those perfectly capable applicants. The 30 files that made it to the final round were all shockingly good. I've had a look at your sample and file, and I don't think it's out of the question that you could be among those 30 next year -- but I also don't think it's out of the question that it would again be a near miss. And even if you made it into the top 30, the file would still have to convince a committee of 3 that it was in the top half of *that* group. (At that level, issues of area-balance and the like also come into play.) I suspect things are similar in other departments. So while I think you have a reasonable chance of getting into one of the selective American PhD programs, I can't guarantee that you would. That being said, I think it likely that if you were admitted, you would go on to complete the program successfully. So the worry is only one about the small number of slots and the large number of applicants.
But of course they don't know about my mental health stuff...
So there is is.
And even if you do come out the other end with a PhD from one of those institutions, job prospects aren't all that grand...
I'll apply to Australia and med school in October.
:-(
Posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 17:49:36
In reply to Re: I know..., posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 17:46:35
I can't answer a single question in under 30 seconds (which you need to be able to do to complete on time).
I don't know my times tables and you need to know them to be able to compute the answers fast enough.
I dropped out of math in the third form.
That was when I was 13.
I can't do it fast enough.
I had a math tutor and he gave up on me.
It isn't about getting a 'passible' score either - it is about getting a score near the top of all applicants etc.
I had the stuff that told you how to do it.
But I still can't do it fast enough.
I am serious about the math disorder thing...
Posted by gardenergirl on March 29, 2005, at 21:25:27
In reply to Re: GRE Math, posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 17:49:36
Ugh, have you been diagnosed with this? Do you get accomodations? I know GRE is more strict about accomodations, but it sounds like if you get it diagnosed from a competent evaluator, you could get some relief.
And regarding your post above...ugh. I'm sorry. What a horrible experience to have to go through. Do you have to go for the top schools? What about a middle tier school?
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 21:27:30
In reply to Re: I know..., posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 17:46:35
Actually thoroughly demoralised, who am I kidding...
Didn't even make it to the top 30
Posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 21:35:58
In reply to Re: GRE Math » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on March 29, 2005, at 21:25:27
> Ugh, have you been diagnosed with this? Do you get accomodations?
No, I haven't. I don't know that it would count as a genuine disorder or not because I probably am just 'a fair bit below average across the whole population' or something like that. It probably doesn't count as a disorder. I don't think they make exceptions for that sort of thing. I'm just not too smart in that respect. They don't make allowances for stupidity. That is kind of the point of the exam.
> And regarding your post above...ugh. I'm sorry. What a horrible experience to have to go through. Do you have to go for the top schools? What about a middle tier school?GRE again.
Have been told not to apply to anything outside the top 50 in phil. The two I applied to are the only 2 in the top 50 who didn't require GRE scores. Never get a research post if you apply outside the top 50. Lucky to get a job at all... And it comes down to a fair bit of that even if you do go somewhere in the top 50...No.
If I don't get into Australia it is time to cut my losses in that field.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 22:12:22
In reply to Re: GRE Math, posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 21:35:58
...because you can get a job at the end of the day. There is a real world out there.
If you want to research (and in philosophy there is no other option) then it is a different story.
Even with science there is an applied aspect - so people see the sense in pouring money into the discipline because they get something for it at the end of the day.
Take something like philosophy and there aren't any obvious practical gains to be made. You might get a book - but then there will only be another book written in rebuttal and what does that get us at the end of the day?
I have been told over and over that you really do have to be realistic. And the reality is harsh. Only a select few make it. Talent, sure - but also a whole heap of luck. And I lucked out. And there it is.
One more go.
Then it is time to face realities...
Posted by rainbowbrite on March 30, 2005, at 0:55:56
In reply to Re: applied fields are different..., posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 22:12:22
>One more go.
Then it is time to face realities...
NO keep at it....you could always work for a time and keep applying..i dunno maybe it isn't possible. But I say be persistent. I would tutor you in math if I could. :-)
i know its frustating....did I read soemwhere that you were going to apply to Austrlia and Canada as well? there are still posisblities
Posted by gardenergirl on March 30, 2005, at 2:27:14
In reply to Re: applied fields are different..., posted by rainbowbrite on March 30, 2005, at 0:55:56
I forgot about the GRE thing, and I'm sorry if my suggesting you apply to different schools sounded insensitive.
I went right into problem solving mode without validating your cruddy feeling. I'm so sorry. I know I feel helpless and down from over here, so I can only imagine how it feels for you.
(((alexandraK)))
But when I was reading, it sounded like you did place fairly well. I mean heck, you got up there with the cream, you know? I know it sucks, but hey, you made the first cut. They didn't reject you outright.
You've got something there, sweetie. For some reason, you're getting tires and big huge boulders thrown at your from the traffic ahead, but I believe that your journey will lead to great things for you. Where ever you wind up, I believe you will find yourself challenged, stimulated, and proud of your accomplishments. You just might have to detour to avoid some of those boulders.
Darned falling rock zones. Makes a girl want to move to the country.
(((((((((Alex))))))))
Hang in....
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on March 30, 2005, at 22:51:27
In reply to Re: applied fields are different..., posted by rainbowbrite on March 30, 2005, at 0:55:56
> NO keep at it....you could always work for a time and keep applying..i dunno maybe it isn't possible. But I say be persistent. I would tutor you in math if I could. :-)
Thanks Rainbow, that means a lot to me.
Shame we don't live close, I might be able to help you with something and you really could be my math tutor :-)Yeah, you are right. Be persistent. I am getting pretty good at that. It gets me down sometimes, but you are right. There is nothing else to be done.
> i know its frustating....did I read soemwhere that you were going to apply to Austrlia and Canada as well? there are still posisblitiesYup. One place in Australia that I would really be very keen to get to. I think I will apply to a whole bunch of places in Australia and maybe even one or two in NZ around the same time. That way I should get in somewhere. And yeah, there is still Canada...
:-)
Posted by alexandra_k on March 30, 2005, at 23:01:13
In reply to Re: applied fields are different..., posted by gardenergirl on March 30, 2005, at 2:27:14
> I forgot about the GRE thing, and I'm sorry if my suggesting you apply to different schools sounded insensitive.
It didn't sound insensitive. It is just a pain in the *ss that most places in the US do require GRE scores. If the GRE thing wasn't an issue I would have applied to 5 places. Only to apply to another 5 next year if they fell through. But with the GRE thing there really only were 2 for me to apply to. I can't imagine my chances would be any better in re-applying so I am tending to think that that is just a waste of money. Fingers crossed for Australia now. I'll find out if there is a mid-year intake - which some times there is. Otherwise applications are due in October to start the following January.
> (((alexandraK)))Thanks gg. Your support means a great deal to me.
I am glad you can post on the students board :-)> But when I was reading, it sounded like you did place fairly well. I mean heck, you got up there with the cream, you know? I know it sucks, but hey, you made the first cut. They didn't reject you outright.
I don't know how to take it. I was gutted I didn't get into that top 30... But other people are saying I did real well to get where I did. It is hard to know... Given my slightly messy transcript (3 semesters of compassionate withdrawals)... given my institution... given one of my referees said they would not find me full of confidence... Yeah. I just need to look at it the other way. It isn't that they laughed in my face. So I did ok. I did. I did.
Thanks so much.I really do think I will be alright.
There are other things that are important to me too... It is not the end of the world. Not even the end of my world. And if I end up in the place I want to go to in Australia then I am no worse off. In fact it is better than if I got into my second US choice.And if I don't... It is still ok. I will get in somewhere. I will be ok.
This is the end of the thread.
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