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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Adia on September 3, 2003, at 21:29:58
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Adia, posted by stebby on August 31, 2003, at 21:28:28
Hi stebby,
your post meant so much to me! Thank you for feeling it with me...
I so hope you can build trust with your T..I'm really sorry you had such a painful experience with your previous one. I would be devastated if mine abandoned me and I would have such difficulty to trust someone new and let someone close again. I understand the fears you're having after what you went through. It is scary to let someone close and risk being hurt...I still feel scared of giving my T so much power to hurt me, but after all I've been through with her I do feel her in my heart without doubting everything she tells me. I am really, really sorry your previous T hurt you so much.
You are very brave for trying to trust someone new. It takes time to trust, I do hope you can believe in your T and in what she tells you..Maybe you still have lots of work to do with her in order to build trust and so that you can feel in your heart that her care and what she gives you and tells you is very real.
I am glad you're giving her a chance...
I would encourage you to just keep talking to her and telling her your fears and hurt over all of this. I know it is scary to let someone close after being hurt so badly, I hope you can build trust with your T and start believing in your heart that what she gives you is real. I tell my T that I really need her to reassure me, I tell her that I am afraid of her not loving me anymore or not being with me, I tell her if I feel scared of things not being real, and every time she reassures me, and it helps some...Maybe you can try to share a bit with your T and tell her about the fears you are having...I hope she can be there for you and you can build a solid, strong bond with her, based on honesty, truth, respect and gentle love.
Thank you for listening to me and sharing back.
wishing you lots of trust with your T,
Adia> Adia, Your message was so heart felt, it brought tears to my eyes. To have had such a difficult childhood and then have someone who is completely there for you like she is is heart-warming. I'm glad you can trust her like you do and I desperately want to trust my T like that, and I think I do. One of the problems is that my first T did in effect "abandon" me. She had to terminate and then when I saw her on the street she ignored me. I thought she had a special place in her heart for me. It was one of the most painful experiences I have ever had. Since then, I cannot seem to get past this idea, that the therapist is just doing her job by being caring, but its not real. I have talked to my T about this, and she was reassuring, but of course she is, that is her job. I am going to talk to her again about it on Tuesday. It keeps coming up. She has never done anything to break my trust, but I think its going to take time given my first experience with transference and therapy. I am really afraid to let myself feel that close again and keep trying to convince myself that she's really a fake, so as not to get hurt again.
>
> I really appreciate your supportive words and the effort you put into your note to me. It means a lot.
Posted by Adia on September 3, 2003, at 21:32:56
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Adia, posted by crushedout on September 3, 2003, at 16:47:02
Hi..
I'm glad it helped you in some way...It actually helps me to feel my therapist closer to my heart, too. :o)
Thank YOU for reading and 'listening' to me...
I'm really glad it helped you to think about your therapy...
all the best,
Adia.> Adia, your message brought tears to my eyes, too. And it was soooo helpful for me in thinking about my therapy. Thank you so much.
Posted by stebby on September 4, 2003, at 19:43:42
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » stebby, posted by Adia on September 3, 2003, at 21:29:58
Adia, Thanks for your support. I'm not sure I will ever get over what happened with my first T. I should have never gone with an inexperienced therapist. She was not trained to deal with transference and I think it really scared her. I never crossed any boundaries until the therapy was over and I called her at home. She was so angry with me...I cried and cried afterwards. It was awful.
I have talked about it with my new T and its mortifying, but good to be able to talk to someone about it all. Luckily, my new T is very experienced...I think she can handle it, but I still fear what she is really thinking...Thanks for listening. Hope you are doing well.
Posted by corafree on August 24, 2004, at 17:10:59
In reply to Why bother with therapy?, posted by stebby on August 15, 2003, at 11:00:07
Hi. Are you talking about DBT therapy for BPersonD? I am stuck a bit, missing appts., being late, etc., and have not yet begun DBT therapy or dialectical behavioral therapy. Is this the therapy you all are discussing here? Appreciate your more current info posted here about becoming dependent (for lack of better word) on a T. My therapist and I have communicated about our feelings towards one another. I asked her how she feels about me, caucasian, middle class, born in America, while her family lives in Iran?? She explained quietly and with a kind smile that it was not an issue. I was afraid she might hold some prejudicial feelings. Also, after being 'noncompliant' (missing or being late to appts), I asked if her feelings for me had changed? I believe that we do need to connect, but it not be a 'special' relationship for her or me. If I am worried about our relationship, I just spill it out. If you are discussing dialectical behavioral therapy, or just therapy itself, I am open to any info you could share. I do have borderline personality disorder. Best wishes cf
Posted by stebby on August 25, 2004, at 17:50:40
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » stebby, posted by corafree on August 24, 2004, at 17:10:59
> Hello,
We weren't specifically talking about DBT or BorderPers disorder although I'm sure it could apply. We were talking about transference and how difficult it is to deal with. Even though that post was a year ago, I am still struggling with it. My therapist knows, and we try to work with it. RU worried you will develop transference?
StebbyHi. Are you talking about DBT therapy for BPersonD? I am stuck a bit, missing appts., being late, etc., and have not yet begun DBT therapy or dialectical behavioral therapy. Is this the therapy you all are discussing here? Appreciate your more current info posted here about becoming dependent (for lack of better word) on a T. My therapist and I have communicated about our feelings towards one another. I asked her how she feels about me, caucasian, middle class, born in America, while her family lives in Iran?? She explained quietly and with a kind smile that it was not an issue. I was afraid she might hold some prejudicial feelings. Also, after being 'noncompliant' (missing or being late to appts), I asked if her feelings for me had changed? I believe that we do need to connect, but it not be a 'special' relationship for her or me. If I am worried about our relationship, I just spill it out. If you are discussing dialectical behavioral therapy, or just therapy itself, I am open to any info you could share. I do have borderline personality disorder. Best wishes cf
Posted by Starlight on August 27, 2004, at 12:24:32
In reply to Why bother with therapy?, posted by stebby on August 15, 2003, at 11:00:07
Hi Stebby,
I'm sure alot of people won't like this, but I'm with you. I haven't had the transferance issues, but I'm through with therapy. I think that overall, you have to learn to love yourself, faults and all before you can move on. I think that some people really need it, as long as they think they need it, but like you said, I feel like just another client where the therapist pretends to be concerned for you, but is really just looking at you from a clinical perspective, and in the end, you're just another client coming in the swinging door.In your case - LOVE the part of you that wants to hurt yourself. Accept and care for both parts. You might want to start studying some buddhist reading material. I'm not promoting Buddhism, but there are some wonderful approaches to handling life. Once you accept and love that part of you, you aim to deny, you can let go of the guilt and shame that you have surrounding the desire to hurt yourself. There is no guilt and shame in that - for whatever reason, you use this method as a way of both protecting yourself and reaching out to others. But you've got to dig deep and learn to recognize that spark of God that you are. There are some excellent books on Jnana Yoga as well. Jnana Yoga aims to teach full acceptance of the self so that you can learn to celebrate who you are and be released from guilt and shame.
Starlight
Posted by Starlight on August 27, 2004, at 13:11:03
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? ? stebby, posted by fallsfall on August 16, 2003, at 15:30:49
Why do you think that you focus on her that way? I'm just curious. The other thing about thereapists is that I think they tend to cultivate a relationship based on dependency, rather than to help you realize your own strength, kind of like an affirmation that you really 'need' them, rather than an affirmation that you already have everything you need, you just need to figure out how to recognize and honor every single part of you.
starlight
Posted by corafree on August 27, 2004, at 14:53:15
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » corafree, posted by stebby on August 25, 2004, at 17:50:40
Stebby: I guess I was just trying to understand transference. Is it like, if T thinks I'm o.k., I am, and vice-versa? Did see my T wed and am going to begin DBT soon. I have seen many therapists over the past 20+ yrs and all I knew was that there were two types, the here and now kind, and the go back and find out what happened kind. I really never had the $ to go w/ the latter, and it's not very popular today. Anyway, I just need all the info and support I can get. I'm dealing with BperdonD, possibly Attention Deficit Disorder, Grief, and Chronic Pain, so I check out all these issues here. Tks cf
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:05:07
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on August 27, 2004, at 13:11:03
I don't think my therapist was trying to cultivate dependency, I think he was afraid of it. But it happened to some degree anyway, because of the transference.
I just finished talking with him on the telephone very briefly, he was stiff and unnatural (I heard a door opening, maybe a client walked in) but it was a quick conversation, and you know what I was thinking when I hung up? "What a silly man".
He has all his defenses up when I'm around. I'm sorry, but I think that's silly, I don't understand it, and I'm glad I don't see him anymore. Ah.
I agree with your previous post too, Starlight. It's important to love yourself and be self-dependent; the more I do that the better I'm feeling. Of course, Babble does help a lot. It's nice to see you here again Starlight. Hasn't it been a while?
Posted by stebby on August 27, 2004, at 20:33:36
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on August 27, 2004, at 12:24:32
Hi Starlight,
I really wish I could give up therapy, but I'm so attached it would be devastating. It does frustrate me endlessly that I am just another client coming through the door, and the attachment is so one-sided. Thanks you for the advice on the Buddhism reading. I will check it out.
Have you dealt with self-injury issues yourself? You seem to know a lot about it.
Stebby
> Hi Stebby,
> I'm sure alot of people won't like this, but I'm with you. I haven't had the transferance issues, but I'm through with therapy. I think that overall, you have to learn to love yourself, faults and all before you can move on. I think that some people really need it, as long as they think they need it, but like you said, I feel like just another client where the therapist pretends to be concerned for you, but is really just looking at you from a clinical perspective, and in the end, you're just another client coming in the swinging door.
>
> In your case - LOVE the part of you that wants to hurt yourself. Accept and care for both parts. You might want to start studying some buddhist reading material. I'm not promoting Buddhism, but there are some wonderful approaches to handling life. Once you accept and love that part of you, you aim to deny, you can let go of the guilt and shame that you have surrounding the desire to hurt yourself. There is no guilt and shame in that - for whatever reason, you use this method as a way of both protecting yourself and reaching out to others. But you've got to dig deep and learn to recognize that spark of God that you are. There are some excellent books on Jnana Yoga as well. Jnana Yoga aims to teach full acceptance of the self so that you can learn to celebrate who you are and be released from guilt and shame.
> Starlight
Posted by stebby on August 27, 2004, at 20:39:55
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » stebby, posted by corafree on August 27, 2004, at 14:53:15
Corafree,
Transference is being in love, but its not real love, or so they say, because you are just projecting. It does start from the T thinking you are okay, making you feel accepted even though she knows all these horrible things about you. Its very seductive to have someone in a powerful role to approve of you. I guess that's why it happens to me all the time. Have you had DBT before? When were you diagnosed BordPD and how did you know?> Stebby: I guess I was just trying to understand transference. Is it like, if T thinks I'm o.k., I am, and vice-versa? Did see my T wed and am going to begin DBT soon. I have seen many therapists over the past 20+ yrs and all I knew was that there were two types, the here and now kind, and the go back and find out what happened kind. I really never had the $ to go w/ the latter, and it's not very popular today. Anyway, I just need all the info and support I can get. I'm dealing with BperdonD, possibly Attention Deficit Disorder, Grief, and Chronic Pain, so I check out all these issues here. Tks cf
>
>
Posted by allisonf on August 28, 2004, at 0:15:03
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by stebby on August 27, 2004, at 20:39:55
Wow! I just cked in and saw this thread was going again! I often wonder how everyone has been--Dinah, fallsfall, Penny, Adia, Stebby. Hope you are all well. You were such a big support for me when I was posting a year ago.
Corafree, sorry to hear you are going thru a rough time. I would be interested to hear about the DBT.
Just an update: I am still in therapy, but the transference is a little better. I think I'm slowly starting to accept that I'm never going to be able to be anything but a client to my therapist. Honestly, I think I just hit on the right meds and that settled down my obsessive thoughts.
I would be interested to hear how some of the original posters on this thread have fared with their transference issues.
Hope everyone is doing well!
Posted by angie_o_ on August 28, 2004, at 7:39:52
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on August 27, 2004, at 12:24:32
Hi,
I have been going on and off for the last 2 years. I usally get really stressed out after a session and can remain stirred up and upset for days after. I have changed T's to help it. I think it was my last T's fault, just what she said and did.
Now I am trying to talk about positive future things only. How to think, what to do etc..
This T is older and more assured and seems to care more about me moving on to better things instead of digging through every negative aspect of my life.
Hopefully this will renew my faith in therapy.
Posted by stebby on August 28, 2004, at 12:26:25
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by allisonf on August 28, 2004, at 0:15:03
Hi again Allisonf! Good to hear that things are going better! :-) I've wondered how everyone has been fairing too. My transference is no better than a year ago but I'm not fighting it so much anymore..today anyway. It is great to hear everyone elses experiences around this. Anyone else out there with tranference problems?
> Wow! I just cked in and saw this thread was going again! I often wonder how everyone has been--Dinah, fallsfall, Penny, Adia, Stebby. Hope you are all well. You were such a big support for me when I was posting a year ago.
>
> Corafree, sorry to hear you are going thru a rough time. I would be interested to hear about the DBT.
>
> Just an update: I am still in therapy, but the transference is a little better. I think I'm slowly starting to accept that I'm never going to be able to be anything but a client to my therapist. Honestly, I think I just hit on the right meds and that settled down my obsessive thoughts.
>
> I would be interested to hear how some of the original posters on this thread have fared with their transference issues.
>
> Hope everyone is doing well!
Posted by Dinah on August 28, 2004, at 17:34:36
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by allisonf on August 28, 2004, at 0:15:03
Hi Allison! Glad to hear you're doing better. :)
I just glanced over my old posts to see how I'm doing in comparison to then, and I think things hadn't changed much. We had a comfortable therapeutic relationship then and have one now.
The only thing's that has changed is that I might be needing him a bit less now, and might be ready to go down to once a week sessions. I'm still really comfortable with the therapeutic relationship as it is. Not wanting anything more, but seeing value in it as a type of relationship to have in my life. Along with maintenance medications, it helps keep me on a more even keel, keeps troubles to a minimum, and allows me to function at my best in other areas in my life.
Posted by allisonf on August 29, 2004, at 10:34:04
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » allisonf, posted by Dinah on August 28, 2004, at 17:34:36
Stebby and Dinah, It's so good to hear about how you're both doing. Glad to hear that you're doing better! :) Dinah, that's great that you're feeling good enough to go once/week. I remember you had a good relationship with your therapist.
My therapist has been on vacation for the past few weeks. Then I missed her b/c I was away the week before she left. In total, it's been a month since I've seen her. I do miss her a lot and still dream about her occasionally. I go again this Tuesday and I'm looking forward to seeing her. Have you guys been dealing with the "therapist on vacation" issue much this summer?
Posted by Dinah on August 29, 2004, at 13:26:09
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by allisonf on August 29, 2004, at 10:34:04
My therapist has been gone for a few long weekends, but no long vacations. He's going for another long weekend at the end of September. I'm lucky so far, I guess. He was supposed to be gone for ten days for work, but it got cancelled.
A whole month! I guess that gave you a good chance to test your independence.
Posted by corafree on August 29, 2004, at 19:13:25
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Starlight, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:05:07
Susan, I somehow lost a lot of posts on this computer, away for a couple days. Was it you that I asked about your dosage of thyroid med? Sorry if it wasn't. Could ya' let me know if it was? Tks cf
> I don't think my therapist was trying to cultivate dependency, I think he was afraid of it. But it happened to some degree anyway, because of the transference.
> I just finished talking with him on the telephone very briefly, he was stiff and unnatural (I heard a door opening, maybe a client walked in) but it was a quick conversation, and you know what I was thinking when I hung up? "What a silly man".
> He has all his defenses up when I'm around. I'm sorry, but I think that's silly, I don't understand it, and I'm glad I don't see him anymore. Ah.
> I agree with your previous post too, Starlight. It's important to love yourself and be self-dependent; the more I do that the better I'm feeling. Of course, Babble does help a lot. It's nice to see you here again Starlight. Hasn't it been a while?
Posted by allisonf on August 29, 2004, at 22:01:52
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » allisonf, posted by Dinah on August 29, 2004, at 13:26:09
That's great that you haven't had to deal with the long vacation thing. When your therapist is gone for long weekends he has someone on call, right? Have you ever called the on call person? I did once last year, and she ended up calling my therapist on her vacation. That was embarrassing!! But then again, I was in a really bad depression...and I remember all of you on the bd saying that she wouldn't have set it up that way if she didn't want to be called in an emergency. That was really helpful to me at the time.
You talked about testing my independence and I do think this time it helped me to be away from therapy for awhile. I am thinking of cutting back a little on my therapy too. I don't know how long this idea will last or if I will even chicken out telling her I want to when I see her this week. But at least I'm starting to think about it. Did you say you were going less?
Posted by Susan47 on August 29, 2004, at 22:14:04
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Susan47, posted by corafree on August 29, 2004, at 19:13:25
Posted by Dinah on August 30, 2004, at 8:31:15
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Dinah, posted by allisonf on August 29, 2004, at 22:01:52
I'm trying the idea on for size. It may be a while before it sticks. :)
My therapist doesn't have anyone on call, which hasn't been a problem yet because he generally gives me permission to leave a message on his cell phone. But when he's got an emergency and can't do that, the lack of a backup will be a problem. And he's too darn disorganized to think of those things in advance.
Posted by Starlight on August 30, 2004, at 13:10:53
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? ? Starlight, posted by stebby on August 27, 2004, at 20:33:36
I had basically out of control bullimia for about 7 years - which is really slow suicide, so in that respect I would say yes. While I wasn't cutting myself, I was depriving my body of every single calorie and got to the point where I passed out on the job and was hospitalized in the psych ward of an overseas hospital.
What cured me was a lot of investment in other things, like going to community college, getting heavily involved in music and just doing things that focued on others rather than myself. That's a huge part of it - getting rid of the self absorption. As long as you're self absorbed in how much you long to hurt yourself, then you can't fully engage in activities that you really enjoy. You've got to change the focus and take control of life in new directions, things you find mentally fun and stimulating. More stimulating than hurting yourself. It's interesting how we get stuck in feeling bad and when we finally feel good, we look back and say, 'wow, it was so much more work to feel bad'.
My actual 'cure' arrived overnight. I dreamt that my fiance at the time, walked in and caught me vomiting. He looked at me (remember this is a dream) and said 'Starlight, you've really got to stop this' and that morning, I swear, the urge to vomit was gone. Gone. It was like divine intervention. I went from throwing up as many as twenty times a day to being completely healed. But ultimately, it was the work I did that got me to the point of being healed.
But the most important thing, is finding something you enjoy more than hurting yourself. Maybe it's acting. Maybe getting involved in a different way of expressing your pain would be better. For me it was music.
xo
starlight
Posted by allisonf on August 30, 2004, at 15:16:19
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on August 30, 2004, at 13:10:53
I agree with you Starlight that if you can find things outside of yourself to help distract you from your pain that can be very beneficial. I think it's hard to do sometimes if you are in quite a lot of pain...you almost have to catch it at just the right time and say, go back to school or pursue a hobby right then. Anyways, sorry to hear it has been such a long road for you.
Posted by allisonf on August 30, 2004, at 15:20:41
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » allisonf, posted by Dinah on August 30, 2004, at 8:31:15
I know what you mean about "trying it on for size". I think I'm doing the same thing.
That's funny about your therapist being disorganized! Is it kind of in the absent minded professor way? Mine is pretty organized, and she usually calls back promptly...then on those occasions when she doesn't, I get all impatient waiting for a call back. That's great that you have his cellphone for emergencies. Do you talk to your therapist on the phone much? I used to when I was in the midst of crisis, but lately, I've been able to hold back.
Posted by stebby on August 30, 2004, at 20:38:13
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on August 30, 2004, at 13:10:53
Starlight,
Your story is inspirational. I'm glad to hear that you were able to conquer your desire to purge. I constantly struggle with a desire to cut, but as you say, the times when I am involved in things I enjoy doing and with other people, it's much easier. Sometimes I do much better than others. the self-absorbtion can be a problem. Fortunatley my occupation ( a teacher)forces me to keep from becoming too self-absorbed. How long have you been cured? Do you still struggle with the desire?Tell me about your therapist's involvement in healing. Were you attached to him/her? Are you still seeing one, or have you completely written off therapy?
Stebby> I had basically out of control bullimia for about 7 years - which is really slow suicide, so in that respect I would say yes. While I wasn't cutting myself, I was depriving my body of every single calorie and got to the point where I passed out on the job and was hospitalized in the psych ward of an overseas hospital.
>
> What cured me was a lot of investment in other things, like going to community college, getting heavily involved in music and just doing things that focued on others rather than myself. That's a huge part of it - getting rid of the self absorption. As long as you're self absorbed in how much you long to hurt yourself, then you can't fully engage in activities that you really enjoy. You've got to change the focus and take control of life in new directions, things you find mentally fun and stimulating. More stimulating than hurting yourself. It's interesting how we get stuck in feeling bad and when we finally feel good, we look back and say, 'wow, it was so much more work to feel bad'.
>
> My actual 'cure' arrived overnight. I dreamt that my fiance at the time, walked in and caught me vomiting. He looked at me (remember this is a dream) and said 'Starlight, you've really got to stop this' and that morning, I swear, the urge to vomit was gone. Gone. It was like divine intervention. I went from throwing up as many as twenty times a day to being completely healed. But ultimately, it was the work I did that got me to the point of being healed.
>
> But the most important thing, is finding something you enjoy more than hurting yourself. Maybe it's acting. Maybe getting involved in a different way of expressing your pain would be better. For me it was music.
> xo
> starlight
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