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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by allisonf on August 29, 2004, at 22:01:52
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » allisonf, posted by Dinah on August 29, 2004, at 13:26:09
That's great that you haven't had to deal with the long vacation thing. When your therapist is gone for long weekends he has someone on call, right? Have you ever called the on call person? I did once last year, and she ended up calling my therapist on her vacation. That was embarrassing!! But then again, I was in a really bad depression...and I remember all of you on the bd saying that she wouldn't have set it up that way if she didn't want to be called in an emergency. That was really helpful to me at the time.
You talked about testing my independence and I do think this time it helped me to be away from therapy for awhile. I am thinking of cutting back a little on my therapy too. I don't know how long this idea will last or if I will even chicken out telling her I want to when I see her this week. But at least I'm starting to think about it. Did you say you were going less?
Posted by Susan47 on August 29, 2004, at 22:14:04
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Susan47, posted by corafree on August 29, 2004, at 19:13:25
Posted by Dinah on August 30, 2004, at 8:31:15
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Dinah, posted by allisonf on August 29, 2004, at 22:01:52
I'm trying the idea on for size. It may be a while before it sticks. :)
My therapist doesn't have anyone on call, which hasn't been a problem yet because he generally gives me permission to leave a message on his cell phone. But when he's got an emergency and can't do that, the lack of a backup will be a problem. And he's too darn disorganized to think of those things in advance.
Posted by Starlight on August 30, 2004, at 13:10:53
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? ? Starlight, posted by stebby on August 27, 2004, at 20:33:36
I had basically out of control bullimia for about 7 years - which is really slow suicide, so in that respect I would say yes. While I wasn't cutting myself, I was depriving my body of every single calorie and got to the point where I passed out on the job and was hospitalized in the psych ward of an overseas hospital.
What cured me was a lot of investment in other things, like going to community college, getting heavily involved in music and just doing things that focued on others rather than myself. That's a huge part of it - getting rid of the self absorption. As long as you're self absorbed in how much you long to hurt yourself, then you can't fully engage in activities that you really enjoy. You've got to change the focus and take control of life in new directions, things you find mentally fun and stimulating. More stimulating than hurting yourself. It's interesting how we get stuck in feeling bad and when we finally feel good, we look back and say, 'wow, it was so much more work to feel bad'.
My actual 'cure' arrived overnight. I dreamt that my fiance at the time, walked in and caught me vomiting. He looked at me (remember this is a dream) and said 'Starlight, you've really got to stop this' and that morning, I swear, the urge to vomit was gone. Gone. It was like divine intervention. I went from throwing up as many as twenty times a day to being completely healed. But ultimately, it was the work I did that got me to the point of being healed.
But the most important thing, is finding something you enjoy more than hurting yourself. Maybe it's acting. Maybe getting involved in a different way of expressing your pain would be better. For me it was music.
xo
starlight
Posted by allisonf on August 30, 2004, at 15:16:19
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on August 30, 2004, at 13:10:53
I agree with you Starlight that if you can find things outside of yourself to help distract you from your pain that can be very beneficial. I think it's hard to do sometimes if you are in quite a lot of pain...you almost have to catch it at just the right time and say, go back to school or pursue a hobby right then. Anyways, sorry to hear it has been such a long road for you.
Posted by allisonf on August 30, 2004, at 15:20:41
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » allisonf, posted by Dinah on August 30, 2004, at 8:31:15
I know what you mean about "trying it on for size". I think I'm doing the same thing.
That's funny about your therapist being disorganized! Is it kind of in the absent minded professor way? Mine is pretty organized, and she usually calls back promptly...then on those occasions when she doesn't, I get all impatient waiting for a call back. That's great that you have his cellphone for emergencies. Do you talk to your therapist on the phone much? I used to when I was in the midst of crisis, but lately, I've been able to hold back.
Posted by stebby on August 30, 2004, at 20:38:13
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on August 30, 2004, at 13:10:53
Starlight,
Your story is inspirational. I'm glad to hear that you were able to conquer your desire to purge. I constantly struggle with a desire to cut, but as you say, the times when I am involved in things I enjoy doing and with other people, it's much easier. Sometimes I do much better than others. the self-absorbtion can be a problem. Fortunatley my occupation ( a teacher)forces me to keep from becoming too self-absorbed. How long have you been cured? Do you still struggle with the desire?Tell me about your therapist's involvement in healing. Were you attached to him/her? Are you still seeing one, or have you completely written off therapy?
Stebby> I had basically out of control bullimia for about 7 years - which is really slow suicide, so in that respect I would say yes. While I wasn't cutting myself, I was depriving my body of every single calorie and got to the point where I passed out on the job and was hospitalized in the psych ward of an overseas hospital.
>
> What cured me was a lot of investment in other things, like going to community college, getting heavily involved in music and just doing things that focued on others rather than myself. That's a huge part of it - getting rid of the self absorption. As long as you're self absorbed in how much you long to hurt yourself, then you can't fully engage in activities that you really enjoy. You've got to change the focus and take control of life in new directions, things you find mentally fun and stimulating. More stimulating than hurting yourself. It's interesting how we get stuck in feeling bad and when we finally feel good, we look back and say, 'wow, it was so much more work to feel bad'.
>
> My actual 'cure' arrived overnight. I dreamt that my fiance at the time, walked in and caught me vomiting. He looked at me (remember this is a dream) and said 'Starlight, you've really got to stop this' and that morning, I swear, the urge to vomit was gone. Gone. It was like divine intervention. I went from throwing up as many as twenty times a day to being completely healed. But ultimately, it was the work I did that got me to the point of being healed.
>
> But the most important thing, is finding something you enjoy more than hurting yourself. Maybe it's acting. Maybe getting involved in a different way of expressing your pain would be better. For me it was music.
> xo
> starlight
Posted by Starlight on August 31, 2004, at 13:38:35
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? ? Starlight, posted by stebby on August 30, 2004, at 20:38:13
I had been going to a therapist while I was in the throes of my eating disorder. I would go see her and then get in my car after my session and go to the nearest all you can eat buffet to binge and purge right after my session. I don't think that helped very much at all.
I think what helped me the most was going to community college and finally being recognized for my mind rather than my appearance. I grew up in Miami and my parents had a lot to do with why I developed the eating disorder. I binged and purged as a result of the severe emotional tumult in my home life and the physical and mental abuses I was getting hit with. I found eating to be extremely comforting, especially sweets and such. I gotta say I really hated living at this point.
In community college, I started succeeding and that was very exciting to me. Often times women with eating disorders and other types of self harm disorders are actually very bright but the pain of living is harsh, especially when you predominatly experience the superficiality of people instead of their deeper more intimate side.
In the first year post eating disorder, I threw up twice. Once was at thanksgiving with my family (go figure) and I can't recall when the second time was. But that's been it. It's actually been over ten years now and I'm happy with my body.
I did therapy for a really long time, but the reason I've written it off is that my last Pdoc broke confidentiality, he put information about my pot usage (which he promised would not leave his office) into my main medical record and coded and sent it to my insurance company. The things he wrote about me were extremely unkind and untrue and his betrayal is one of the most hurtful things I've ever experienced. I have a new, female Pdoc now who oversees my medication but that's it.
My files are kept in the central med records file of the hospital where I work. I had surgery back in December but didn't know that the information was in my main record (which followed me around throughout my surgery) so the doctors that handled me including the anesthesiologists, who I work very closely with, could all have seen that information, which could have a very negative impact on my career potential.
That was enough. I wish you all the best.
starlight
Posted by Starlight on August 31, 2004, at 13:58:33
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? ? Starlight, posted by stebby on August 30, 2004, at 20:38:13
Stebby,
One other thing, I have never been attached to any of my therapists. There was one I had along the way that I really liked and who I believe I might have worked really well with, but I'm good at respecting boundaries. I think I've always been aware that the nature of a relationship of a therapist is a fee based swinging door dependent on what he or she thinks your problems are. The last therapist I saw told me I didn't need a therapist, but just needed a good friend that I could talk to. He said that I was the most well functioning client that he's had and that I was pretty much wasting my money.I take a lot of practical approaches though to trying to maintain good mental health, daily journaling, walking, yoga, music and lately resting!
All the best,
starlight
Posted by corafree on August 31, 2004, at 16:32:07
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » allisonf, posted by stebby on August 28, 2004, at 12:26:25
Hello friends. I'm running like a chix w/o head. DBT group therapy begins tomorrow from 5-7p. Yesterday had individual therapy. As I listened to her speaking about what to expect in group, she made quick mention of 'another' therapist taking over, then quickly said 'she doesn't plan going anywhere', but she planted the seed that becoming too attached only to her cannot happen.
She is great, (my daughter, my support, and very knowledgeable) really thought she was great too, so I know she is (never know for sure 'til someone else says so!%Q#). I'd like to let ya'll know re: DBT, and, selfishly, it could help me by re-entering info into my almost unabsorbable mind. Oh, my PCP (lends himself to involve in my emotional issues) asked me if I'd ever been on Wellbutrin. Cannot recall if ? before/after I mentioned my P said I need take ADD test. Eff-XR, Traz, a tinge of Klonopin (my cocktail), what would Wellbutrin do, I wonder. Yrs ago tried it; next morn' felt very heavy/clouded .. tried 1-2d more and quit. Do not need to add to my fatigue. Need Pill Book. cf
> Hi again Allisonf! Good to hear that things are going better! :-) I've wondered how everyone has been fairing too. My transference is no better than a year ago but I'm not fighting it so much anymore..today anyway. It is great to hear everyone elses experiences around this. Anyone else out there with tranference problems?
>
> > Wow! I just cked in and saw this thread was going again! I often wonder how everyone has been--Dinah, fallsfall, Penny, Adia, Stebby. Hope you are all well. You were such a big support for me when I was posting a year ago.
> >
> > Corafree, sorry to hear you are going thru a rough time. I would be interested to hear about the DBT.
> >
> > Just an update: I am still in therapy, but the transference is a little better. I think I'm slowly starting to accept that I'm never going to be able to be anything but a client to my therapist. Honestly, I think I just hit on the right meds and that settled down my obsessive thoughts.
> >
> > I would be interested to hear how some of the original posters on this thread have fared with their transference issues.
> >
> > Hope everyone is doing well!
>
>
Posted by stebby on August 31, 2004, at 20:32:28
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on August 31, 2004, at 13:38:35
Starlight, Thanks for all of your insight. Its always good to hear someone else's story. That is horrible about your former pdoc! I'm so sorry you had that experience. I can't imagine how betrayed you must have felt. Its a good thing you weren't having a transference issue with him!
I have often felt like cutting after therpay, but I think its related more to the transference issues. These have been a problem all of my life when I become close to an authority figure. The problem is that the transference can be so strong for me, I couldn't imagine leaving therpay. My first therapist had to terminate with me(becasue her internship ended) and it was horrible. It was worsened because she lived near me, and when I ran into her (she was walking by my house) she pretty much ignored me. I was devastated. I am so fearful of being abandoned again. I hate being so attached to someone, yet I can't deny it either. I don't know whether or not therapy is actually helping me, but I think so sometimes. Othertimes, I think it just causes more pain.
I saw my therapist today after a whole summer off! It was so good to see her. I love her. Its such a painful love though, because I know she will never be part of my life other than when I pay her for her services. Its a form of prostitution really, but instead of sex, you get intimacy. I'm just going to enjoy the good feeling of seeing her again though, for now. Eventually my utter frustration will return.
Glad to hear you were able to beat your eating disorder. What brings you to the board anyway?
Stebby
> I had been going to a therapist while I was in the throes of my eating disorder. I would go see her and then get in my car after my session and go to the nearest all you can eat buffet to binge and purge right after my session. I don't think that helped very much at all.
>
> I think what helped me the most was going to community college and finally being recognized for my mind rather than my appearance. I grew up in Miami and my parents had a lot to do with why I developed the eating disorder. I binged and purged as a result of the severe emotional tumult in my home life and the physical and mental abuses I was getting hit with. I found eating to be extremely comforting, especially sweets and such. I gotta say I really hated living at this point.
>
> In community college, I started succeeding and that was very exciting to me. Often times women with eating disorders and other types of self harm disorders are actually very bright but the pain of living is harsh, especially when you predominatly experience the superficiality of people instead of their deeper more intimate side.
>
> In the first year post eating disorder, I threw up twice. Once was at thanksgiving with my family (go figure) and I can't recall when the second time was. But that's been it. It's actually been over ten years now and I'm happy with my body.
>
> I did therapy for a really long time, but the reason I've written it off is that my last Pdoc broke confidentiality, he put information about my pot usage (which he promised would not leave his office) into my main medical record and coded and sent it to my insurance company. The things he wrote about me were extremely unkind and untrue and his betrayal is one of the most hurtful things I've ever experienced. I have a new, female Pdoc now who oversees my medication but that's it.
>
> My files are kept in the central med records file of the hospital where I work. I had surgery back in December but didn't know that the information was in my main record (which followed me around throughout my surgery) so the doctors that handled me including the anesthesiologists, who I work very closely with, could all have seen that information, which could have a very negative impact on my career potential.
>
> That was enough. I wish you all the best.
> starlight
Posted by corafree on August 31, 2004, at 20:33:45
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on August 31, 2004, at 13:58:33
I think relationships with therapists depend upon the client and the therapist. I believe there can be some therapists that touch your thoughts and see you, like no others. I think they are a gift and some cannot be let go as easily as others. That's my opinion anyway. I will never forget some and what they have said, and they become a part of my heart. When they are not in our life anymore, I think these special therapists are in your soul. cf
> Stebby,
> One other thing, I have never been attached to any of my therapists. There was one I had along the way that I really liked and who I believe I might have worked really well with, but I'm good at respecting boundaries. I think I've always been aware that the nature of a relationship of a therapist is a fee based swinging door dependent on what he or she thinks your problems are. The last therapist I saw told me I didn't need a therapist, but just needed a good friend that I could talk to. He said that I was the most well functioning client that he's had and that I was pretty much wasting my money.
>
> I take a lot of practical approaches though to trying to maintain good mental health, daily journaling, walking, yoga, music and lately resting!
> All the best,
> starlight
Posted by corafree on August 31, 2004, at 21:16:04
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by stebby on August 27, 2004, at 20:39:55
I was actually diagnosed by my caseworker and then a pdoc I know well at a local treatment facility. I know what DBT entails, but no haven't started yet. Start tommorrow. Love can have many meanings, be many kinds. Why do you see yourself as lesser than a therapist? They, a lot of them, are messed up too. But I have found a very nice, kind, clearly speaking, eye contacting, woman, whose fam' is in Iran. I feel for her. cf
Posted by corafree on August 31, 2004, at 21:45:03
In reply to No Corafree it wasn't me and I can't remember who (nm), posted by Susan47 on August 29, 2004, at 22:14:04
Posted by corafree on September 2, 2004, at 2:37:40
In reply to OKAY ... TKS (nm) » Susan47, posted by corafree on August 31, 2004, at 21:45:03
Posted by corafree on September 2, 2004, at 2:40:11
In reply to Why Do I Have Racing Thoughts? (nm), posted by corafree on September 2, 2004, at 2:37:40
Thoughts come quick, can't remember that one, another one comes, another, another, another. Scared. Can't write them all down. Don't remember. Light candle. Have cig. Wrap in fav' ole' hospital blanket. But get up and have to turn to you, need you. What is this?
Posted by Starlight on September 2, 2004, at 16:24:19
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? ? Starlight, posted by stebby on August 31, 2004, at 20:32:28
I've been here on and off for awhile. Mainly after what happened to me with my pdoc, I was devastated and can only talk about it with very few people, but this group is very understanding, supportive and can relate.
Why do you cut? What's the underlying feeling. For me, with the eating disorder, I think it was kind of like cathartic - throwing up my emotions and frustrations with life, kind of a cleansing myself of the pain I felt. But after awile I couldn't stop and it was eventually out of control. And I'm talking really, really out of control. I threw up every single thing I ate. But somehow I was released. And God, I wish that everyone could experience that release from the things that bind them.
starlight
Posted by Starlight on September 2, 2004, at 16:35:37
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? ? Starlight, posted by corafree on August 31, 2004, at 20:33:45
I agree with you. People have the power that you give them. So if you see them from that angle then they will fill that role for you. But that's all people in general, not just therapists. Some good/some bad, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I think therapy can be great, especially for people who need to gain a better understanding of how they operate and what is the underlying motivation for making the decisions they make. Therapy can increase their understanding of how others operate too. Maybe everybody should go through therapy at one time or another.
One approach that I'd like to see change though, is this 'you have to arrive at your own conclusions' thing instead of addressing things head on. Check this out: in my file my pdoc wrote that I behave in a sexually provocative way (which is hilarious since I'm actually quite conservative), so if he thought that, why didn't he come right out and say something like 'it seems to me that you relate to others from a sexually provocotive manner. Have you ever noticed or thought about this?"
I don't want to sit in a room with some doc week after week, who writes this stuff down in my chart and is thinking one way and pretending to help me. That doesn't help me, tell me what you see and then we can discuss my response. Seems like it would be faster and hella cheaper.
starlight
Posted by stebby on September 2, 2004, at 19:48:11
In reply to Re: Why Do I Have Racing Thoughts?, posted by corafree on September 2, 2004, at 2:40:11
So sorry about all of the racing thoughts with no one to turn to. that's the worst...to feel so alone in it. How was your first day of DBT? Are yu still having the racing thoughts?
Stebby
> Thoughts come quick, can't remember that one, another one comes, another, another, another. Scared. Can't write them all down. Don't remember. Light candle. Have cig. Wrap in fav' ole' hospital blanket. But get up and have to turn to you, need you. What is this?
Posted by stebby on September 2, 2004, at 20:10:30
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on September 2, 2004, at 16:24:19
Why do I cut? I wish I could answer that simply. It all started quite by accident when I was feeling very suicidal, but I discovered some sort of relief with it. First it was very mild and then it got more frequent and a little worse. But, I'm somewhat able to control it. Because I hold a fairly high profile job, have two kids, and what appears to be a very "normal" life from the outside, I know I can't let it get out of hand, or else my life will fall apart completely...it kind of keeps it in check. But, even when I'm not cutting, the desire can be very strong, especially when I'm in conflict with someone or feeling very low. It's something I CAN do when i'm feeling so badly. I can't take my life because of what it would do to my kids...so, it kind of keeps me going sometimes. Unfortunately, its so addictive...who would have thought? but I guess you understand that. From everything I've read, bulimia and SI are very similar.
That is so awful about your pDoc, writing those things and never even addressing them with you. You're right when you say that therapists should address things head on sometimes, instead of waiting for you to "discover" for yourself. There is value in self-discovery, but only to a point. If you were really behaving in a sexually provocative manner and you had no idea, shouldn't he tell you? In reality he was probably fantasizing that you were behaving in a sexually provocative manner. It was probably his own form of transference. When a therpaist scews up it is SO damaging! I am still getting over what my first therapist did to me and that was two and a half years ago.
best to you.
Stebby
been here on and off for awhile. Mainly after what happened to me with my pdoc, I was devastated and can only talk about it with very few people, but this group is very understanding, supportive and can relate.
>
> Why do you cut? What's the underlying feeling. For me, with the eating disorder, I think it was kind of like cathartic - throwing up my emotions and frustrations with life, kind of a cleansing myself of the pain I felt. But after awile I couldn't stop and it was eventually out of control. And I'm talking really, really out of control. I threw up every single thing I ate. But somehow I was released. And God, I wish that everyone could experience that release from the things that bind them.
> starlight
Posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 20:52:43
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on September 2, 2004, at 16:35:37
Starlight,
Ditto ditto ditto. Yes this approach that they can waste our time by not telling us their interpretations really sucks, and is one of the biggest reasons I had to cut myself loose from therapy. I don't think my therapist was a dense person, but I think he acted it. I believe his approach was to let me come to my own conclusions.. and his honesty and forthrightness would have been so much better for me. Maybe that's a bad therapist/client fit, because other posters here have indicated their therapists can be quite up-front.
Posted by corafree on September 2, 2004, at 21:43:12
In reply to Re: Why Do I Have Racing Thoughts?, posted by stebby on September 2, 2004, at 19:48:11
No DBT group - cancelled! Racing thoughts much better. I always have racing thoughts a bit, but they were real clear, gone, real clear, and gone. Usually they are so fleeting they're not understandable. I was having break-through pain (c-spine & up). So, I had taken an extra Neurontin. Could that have caused racing thoughts? It was really scary, never like that before. Know much about Neurontin used in psychiatry vs physical medicine? Allways TU cf
So sorry about all of the racing thoughts with no one to turn to. that's the worst...to feel so alone in it. How was your first day of DBT? Are yu still having the racing thoughts?
>
> Stebby
>
> > Thoughts come quick, can't remember that one, another one comes, another, another, another. Scared. Can't write them all down. Don't remember. Light candle. Have cig. Wrap in fav' ole' hospital blanket. But get up and have to turn to you, need you. What is this?
>
>
Posted by Dinah on September 4, 2004, at 14:20:10
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Dinah, posted by allisonf on August 30, 2004, at 15:20:41
I think he's just plain disorganized. :) No need to put a finer face on it. He has many fine qualities. Organization isn't one of them. He's consistently late, his desk is a mess, he forgot to get his listing into the phone book. He's just disorganized. Luckily I'm not seeing him because *I* feel disorganized, or I'd have to quit. :)
He's not great on the phone, so I don't call him much. Or I do call him sometimes, but to leave a message or to ask a question that can be answered with a few words. I try to be very specific about what response I'm looking for, or I just feel worse after he returns my call. I guess I'd give up calling completely, except sometimes I'll be obsessing about something, and just leaving him a message keeps it from interfering with my life and productivity till the next session.
I still think I'm going to reduce sessions. We're just trying to work on the best way to do it. Have you given it any more thought? The intensity of my anger once I decided to go through with session reduction startled me.
Posted by starlight on September 4, 2004, at 19:08:19
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by stebby on September 2, 2004, at 20:10:30
Have you ever researched self flagellation? Cutting and bullimia seem to be a form of that behavior in a sense. A way to get the pain out of the body, throw it up, cut it out, drown it, etc. It's cathartic. Maybe it's finding a different way to release the pain. I think it's a lifetime struggle. I try to do a lot physically, walk, do intense yoga, exercise my creativity, work and stay very busy. But that too can be a form of cutting or throwing up.
I'm trying to aim for more balance in my life, but I still struggle, I've been through a lot of stressors this year but I seem to be coping fairly well, but have been doing a little too much self medicating that I'm keeping an eye on, but I try not to judge. Judging just makes me feel worse. I try to accept my circumstances and work harder on having good relationships with the people around me.
I look for the beauty in the world around me and give great thanks for it, even if I don't feel like giving thanks. And I feel much, much better when I do that, and it seems like I have many more grace and beauty filled moments. The book "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron gives all sorts of practical tools to explore and discover your strengths and vulnerabilities and help channel your emotions in the right direction. I think it takes a lot of practical work and willingness to take on the responsibility because our relationships with people and our health are what makes this life really rich and fun. When you work really hard and come to new understandings of how to see love and really enjoy this life right now as you stand in it, it's still a struggle.
Whatever helps. I'm going to research self flagellation and see what's out there, both illnesses seem to be a type of that. Sometimes I wonder what it is in my personality that drives me to be that way.
starlight
Posted by Susan47 on September 4, 2004, at 22:53:08
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by starlight on September 4, 2004, at 19:08:19
That was a really beautiful post Starlight. You're elegant; thank you.
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