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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 64bowtie on December 1, 2004, at 1:05:27
All,
This is an example of an alternative modality:
Client: "Gripe, gripe, grumble, grumble!"
Manager/coach: "Ok, I heard and understand your gripes and grumbles. So, what is your request?"
Client makes the first request.
Manager/coach hears the first request and responds: "That's not a request. That's another gripe."
Client makes the second request.
Manager/coach hears the second request and responds: "I hear and understand your request and I can't do anything to help because that is not within my power to do."
Client makes the third request.
Manager/coach hears the third request and responds: "Ok, I hear and understand your request. Response in two days is not possible. I will have results for you in ten working days. Bear in mind that I must involve managers and staff from two other departments to aid in delivering results. You may check on my progress daily. Do you have another request?"
The illusion is that the opposite of griping, grumbling and complaining is "stuffing down our feelings" and suffering in silence. Instead I have not bought into the griping. I have initiated discussions of a remedy, a resultant, a solution. What's missing with griping is clarity of the problem and comunication to establish a strategy for overcoming the issue, the problem, the conflict.
Because I didn't waste time and effort buying into the "cancerous" diatribe, we have strategy and a projected solution, and I am accountable for the success of the strategy.
The giping, grumbling, complaining, and gossiping of the disgruntled individual is "hot-air" next to the solution strategy containing full accountability.
Griping, grumbling and complaining, tears at the fabric of cooperation in your home as well as at your work. Clutter destroys work flow progress, and griping destroys teamwork progress, at home and at work.
Rod
Posted by messadivoce on December 1, 2004, at 1:42:00
In reply to About griping and grumbling... picture this..., posted by 64bowtie on December 1, 2004, at 1:05:27
I don't know that your post is appropriate for a board discussing psychotherapy, but since we're here I'm going to attempt to tie my response into a therapeutic context.
I'm guessing you're a guy because guys often want to find a solution to a problem NOW. However, most women (and many men!) process things (especially traumatic events) through crying, raging, mourning and acknowledging the loss. Hopefully then we can move onto better things and a more fulfilling life, having grieved our losses fully.
My therapist became increasingly beloved to me because he gave me permission to hurt--something I have never been allowed to do. My depression was "anger turned inward" because I did not have the capibilities or the people to turn to for help.
The "grumbling" person in your story is lucky to have a manager who actually cares about the problem instead of brushing them off or threatening their job security!! If only life were that simple, that squeaky clean....
So in conclusion, let me say that the most healing part of therapy for me was not the "solution." It was the tolerance of my pain--yes--my complaints.
Posted by LG04 on December 1, 2004, at 9:22:54
In reply to Re: About griping and grumbling... picture this..., posted by messadivoce on December 1, 2004, at 1:42:00
That was a beautiful response. I second your motion.
LG04
Posted by sunny10 on December 1, 2004, at 12:02:10
In reply to Re: About griping and grumbling... picture this... » messadivoce, posted by LG04 on December 1, 2004, at 9:22:54
I agree with what Rod is saying here, but I think what the ladies are saying is that we don't have the resources necessary to formulate the communication to "work it out".
I speak for myself, here (but probably for others) that the REASON I was trying to get help through therapy was to learn HOW to communicate because I was taught the "good girls keep anger inside" and was never taught two important things;
a) that anger is okay, and that I have a right to conflict resolution. (okay- so I learned that in therapy)
b) how to initiate a conflict resolution having never been given the tools to do so. (which, after 4 therapists, I still don't know)Incidently, I have quit therapy because all four therapists that I have been to over the years have told me just what you said. Stop griping, get over it, solve your conflicts. Problem is, they never bothered to teach me how!
So I'll go back to trying "conflict resolution" that I've been told to do- knowing that in another few years I won't be able to even be rational anymore because the process doesn't work if you don't know how to do it and my emotions will be overwhelmed from all of the failures!
I'm hoping that I just won't care anymore- and I frankly just don't let myself get emotionally invested in anything anymore. If I don't let myself care, theoretically, I won't be hurt by failures. My ego will still be bruised, though, I'm sure...
Posted by Tabitha on December 1, 2004, at 13:10:03
In reply to Re: About griping and grumbling... picture this..., posted by sunny10 on December 1, 2004, at 12:02:10
I had a lot of guilt about my "endless complaining" in therapy. My T said something I treasure, she just very matter-of-factly said "People need to talk about their pain." I remember that little bit of wisdom whenever I'm feeling guilty of my own complaining, or feeling impatient with others' complaining.
That said, I've noticed I've become more interested in solution-focused therapy lately, setting weekly goals and so forth. I can even respond to a little prodding from my T. This is after many many years of lots of just talking about my pain. If my T had tried to force a solution-oriented approach on me earlier, it just wouldn't have worked. People grow at their own pace. I'm a big believer that acceptance is more valuable than prodding and problem-solving during much of the journey. I believe I really needed all those years of 'griping and grumbling' and am grateful I had a wise therapist who knew how to work with me effectively during that period. Honestly I don't know how she does it.
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 1, 2004, at 19:58:50
In reply to Re: About griping and grumbling... picture this..., posted by Tabitha on December 1, 2004, at 13:10:03
I also think, (it's probably not news to any of you) that when someone is griping and grumbling it's hiding a lot of hurt or anxiety underneath. I know at times if I'm in the position to be able to ask if there is something else going on, I end up with a very vulnerable teary person telling me a whole lot.
Posted by Poet on December 2, 2004, at 0:42:50
In reply to About griping and grumbling... picture this..., posted by 64bowtie on December 1, 2004, at 1:05:27
Hi Rod,
I think the subject matter of what is being griped about should be factored in. I admit that I have griped way too much to my husband about our financial situation due to my being unable to get a job.
When I talk about my unemployment situation to my therapist, it could be seen as griping, but talking about it with someone who is objective helps me gripe less at home. Better for my marriage and my mental health.
I am trying to change my jobless situation, but keep getting turned down, even for temp jobs. A job is the answer to stopping my negative feelings, but until it happens I am glad my therapist doesn't see me as griping or grumbling.
Poet
Posted by 64bowtie on December 2, 2004, at 8:57:12
In reply to Re: About griping and grumbling... picture this..., posted by Gabbix2 on December 1, 2004, at 19:58:50
> I also think, (it's probably not news to any of you) that when someone is griping and grumbling it's hiding a lot of hurt or anxiety underneath.
><<< Thanx Gabbi. You got it! Griping, grumbling, complaining, and even gossiping all give us a sense that we are now empowered against the perceived injustice.
Believe this or not, we are invoking our Moms to take care of the problem. Our Moms could all be long dead or thousands of miles away and we still do it.
We all develop the habit in childhood, which is good for then. When we generalize it as adults, its now folded in as part of our collection of bad habits. Our collection of bad habits is our "dysfunction".
In all fairness, this is new information never studied by the DSM-IV people; the literati of the Mental Health Industry.
Czek it out! To this day, my 83 year old Dad says anytime he sees someone behaving some way he thinks is illegal on TV or elsewhere, he blurts out in anger, "That's against the (US) Constitution. They should put that guy in jail." (Who is the "they people"? The Constitution police?)
In my Dad's case, he views the Constitution as an absolute. In truth, the US Constitution is a living document with the ability to adapt and change, sometimes on a single vote of Congress. So reverence to it as an absolute is an illusion and one of my Dad's bad habits. My Dad's Mom died in 1952.
Occasionally in the past I would have flailing "road rage" while driving on the crowded California urban freeways (mostly while in the LA area). This was a bad-habit.
This was initiated by my gut, my second-brain, "The Second Brain". I was always the only one who knew why I was so annoyed and animated, so what good did it ever do?
About eight years ago, I did it, and watched myself do it, sorta out-of-body. I'm certain that gal I was raging about didn't even notice. ...and anyone who did notice, thought I should be locked up to protect humanity.
It took me four hours before I was totally over it so I could reason again, smoothly. I'm also certain I will die four hours sooner because of that rage incident. Sad!
My raging is no longer a possiblity, and no longer one of my bad-habits.
Rod
Posted by 64bowtie on December 2, 2004, at 9:06:41
In reply to About griping and grumbling... picture this..., posted by 64bowtie on December 1, 2004, at 1:05:27
Thank you voce, LG, sunny, Tabitha, Gabbi, and Port. Together we can withstand and make a difference; persevere and overcome.
Rod
This is the end of the thread.
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