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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 40. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 26, 2005, at 23:54:10
Okay, we went even deeper into Freudian stuff this time. A lot of my fear of aggression seems related to what he called "phallic" aggression. Um, male stuff. I also have been talking to him about sex issues. Kind of funny how I am talking about sex and aggression in the same sessions. Oh wait, not really. He asked me "Is it too simple to say that this all started after the rape?" Um, no. Not too simple. That's it.
But then we also talked about growing up and realizing my Dad has some sex issues, too. And how he didn't want me to get my ears pierced until I was 18. Actually, he never wanted me to. He said it was mutilating my body. My T thinks it was actually because it meant I was growing into a woman instead of a little girl. And if he had any incestuous feelings towards me, that would be bad for me to grow up. And would also have freaked him out, although I think he would repress them. He represses everything.
So, anyway, given all that, and thinking that I get all tensed up with anything sexual lately, I was thinking about my weight gain. I wonder if it's really all related to being on an MAOI, or if I am bingeing now as a way to avoid sex. If I don't feel attractive, and my husband doesn't see he as attractive (although he denies that), then no sex, right?
Any thoughts about any of this? I know it's kind of disjointed.
Oh, and another thought. I feel really really close to my T now. I've always felt attached, but lately there's just this new trust and closeness that is really comforting. I suppose if there is someone you can tell your fantasies too and not feel ashamed of them, that's gotta lead to feeling closer. Looked him in the eye as I said them and another sex word. Yeah me!
gg
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2005, at 0:30:06
In reply to More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger****, posted by gardenergirl on February 26, 2005, at 23:54:10
Yes indeed. Good for you! I always close my eyes. :)
Yes, I think disclosure generally deepens our feelings of attachment, especially if it is well received.
I usually think that one of the reasons I gain weight is so that I will look unappealing to my husband, but I'm not sure if that's a good assumption or not given that my husband truly doesn't seem to find me less attractive now than when I was thinner. So I'm not sure if it's really an understanding of my own behavior, or an absorption of standard reasoning for weight gain I've heard on Oprah or Donahue. I think it may be more that I want to look unappealing to everyone, for various and sundry reasons. But that's me.
You have reason and more to link aggression and sex. Even I, who have no history, see sex... well, you know. There's physiology that makes that view reasonable.
Was your father religious? My mother's family all felt that way about girls piercing their ears. It's in the bible or something.
But I do remember that when I got to be a certain age, Daddy wouldn't let me sit on his lap anymore. And somehow that felt icky. Like it shouldn't matter how old I got, he wasn't supposed to notice. Yet on the other hand, he and my mother let me walk around in totally inappropriate clothing in front of family and company, so maybe he hadn't noticed I was growing up.
Now how's this for a disjointed answer?
Posted by alexandra_k on February 27, 2005, at 2:39:38
In reply to More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger****, posted by gardenergirl on February 26, 2005, at 23:54:10
Just a thought about the weight gain...
For me it isn't just about appearing less attractive to others. There is actually something kind of comforting and concealing about having layers of 'protective' fat. I think there is more to that than other peoples responses to me. It just feels different. I just don't feel (as) sexual. I feel more anonymous and protected.
You are doing well...
Eyes open and all.
I am a firm believer in closing my eyes in therapy too. But t's tend not to like that...
Posted by annierose on February 27, 2005, at 7:34:54
In reply to More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger****, posted by gardenergirl on February 26, 2005, at 23:54:10
GG-
I related to a lot of your post. My T and I made similar associations with sex and my father. I have 2 older sisters and when we were getting to our teen years, he always made comments about make-up (hated it) and nail polish ... basically any girly stuff. So being the youngest of the 3, I quickly decided not to draw any attention to myself and dressed extremely plain jane ... in fact last week, my kids and I were looking through old pictures of me growing up and my son said, "mom, you look like a boy". All of this has lead to some very interesting conversations in therapy.Now as an adult, I embrace my feminine side and sometimes even dress to draw attention to myself. It's all confusing because my husband will react (and like it) but then I get mad.
I can see how agression and sex would play into your life after a rape. I was never raped, but have had a sexual situation in college where I felt a kind of pressure to have sex. Anyway, sex is an agressive act, isn't it?
I'm in a great place with my T right now too. Even though she asked me last Thursday "am I trying to lose weight?", I'm thinking she asked that in context to missing my work-out and hopefully not a hidden message for me to lose weight. She also said last week, "I think I know you better than most people." What an understatement. Very few that know me better. Maybe 2 or 3.
Anyway, I guess Freud figured out that so much of life comes down to our parents and sex at our core. Pretty daunting task to be a parent.
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2005, at 8:30:52
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on February 27, 2005, at 2:39:38
I feel more anonymous too. But I always figured that that had something to do with the responses of others. People's glance seems to pass right by the overweight and plain. That *is* one reason I've privately decided that I don't mind being overweight.
Posted by fallsfall on February 27, 2005, at 9:32:52
In reply to More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger****, posted by gardenergirl on February 26, 2005, at 23:54:10
I'm glad you are feeling closer to him - and I admire your bravery talking about sex!
I never pierced my ears, and have encouraged my daughters to not pierce theirs. My sisters did pierce their ears, but not until they were over 18 (I think). My mother always said "You don't have to wear makeup because you are beautiful just the way you are" - and I believe her...
You are doing so well in therapy. Feels good, doesn't it?
Posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2005, at 9:46:26
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2005, at 0:30:06
> Yes indeed. Good for you! I always close my eyes. :)
I never close my eyes, but I do look to the side. Or up at the ceiling. But that's mostly when I'm trying to remember something. I don't know why I think it's on the ceiling, but it seems to work. :)
>
> Yes, I think disclosure generally deepens our feelings of attachment, especially if it is well received.That makes sense. I think I'll tell him how I've been feeling lately and see where that goes. I was thinking of termination the other day...how a final session might go, and I started to cry. I really couldn't decide how I would do last session. Good thing it's a ways away.
>
> So I'm not sure if it's really an understanding of my own behavior, or an absorption of standard reasoning for weight gain I've heard on Oprah or Donahue.I wondered that myself almost as soon as I thought it. "Is this a cliche?" But I can't deny that I do not feel sexy at all at this weight.
> You have reason and more to link aggression and sex. Even I, who have no history, see sex... well, you know. There's physiology that makes that view reasonable.
Yeah, we've got mechanical issues that make it difficult anyway. And yeah, I come by my sex/aggression issue honestly. But at the same time, I get really angry because I used to have a very good sex life. And now that person is just gone. Bah!
>
> Was your father religious? My mother's family all felt that way about girls piercing their ears. It's in the bible or something.If he was, he kept it entirely to himself. He was brought up Methodist, but we never went to church as a family (Mom is Catholic). Never talks about religion or anything bibilical or spiritual.
>
> And somehow that felt icky. Like it shouldn't matter how old I got, he wasn't supposed to notice.I distinctly remember being teased by my uncle for getting long legs as a young teen when I was in my bathing suit at the family cabin. I hated that. Felt icky for people to be noticing I was growing up. I was never one to want to grow up too fast. Always a late bloomer.
> Now how's this for a disjointed answer?
Not any more than my post. :)
Thanks for your thoughts,
gg
>
Posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2005, at 9:50:35
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on February 27, 2005, at 2:39:38
> Just a thought about the weight gain...
>
> For me it isn't just about appearing less attractive to others. There is actually something kind of comforting and concealing about having layers of 'protective' fat.You know, I was also thinking about how I always always have to have a blanket over me if I am lying down. Even in the summer. So if I ever did analysis, I'd be covered up. I suppose that would be all kinds of meaningful. But I just feel safer that way. So your thoughts about weight makes sense, too. It's like another blanket.
Thanks,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2005, at 9:57:06
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » gardenergirl, posted by annierose on February 27, 2005, at 7:34:54
>
> Now as an adult, I embrace my feminine side and sometimes even dress to draw attention to myself. It's all confusing because my husband will react (and like it) but then I get mad.I never dressed or looked like a boy, but I am really hyper aware of when I am too sexy looking. I am always asking hubby, "is this okay to wear out in public? Is this too tight? Too revealing? etc." He answers honestly, and I trust his judgement, but really, the outfit I ask him about is still probably way conservative by others standards. Cleavage? Never!
>
> I can see how agression and sex would play into your life after a rape. I was never raped, but have had a sexual situation in college where I felt a kind of pressure to have sex. Anyway, sex is an agressive act, isn't it?sigh, I do think of it as aggressive. It's definitely an intrusion, even when invited.
>
> Anyway, I guess Freud figured out that so much of life comes down to our parents and sex at our core. Pretty daunting task to be a parent.Perhaps that's why I'm childless still. Too much to deal with. Oh lordy...that could also have to do with the sex. Maybe I am afraid of getting pregnant? yikes.
Thanks,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2005, at 9:59:46
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » gardenergirl, posted by fallsfall on February 27, 2005, at 9:32:52
It does feel good. And it makes me feel strong that I can talk about this. That's always good. Feeling strong versus feeling broken.
gg
Posted by Speaker on February 27, 2005, at 16:55:19
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » fallsfall, posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2005, at 9:59:46
GG,
I'm so glad you are connecting with your T and trust him enough to talk about the big S word!
My father was just like your..."If God wanted holes in your head he would have put them there". My parents never went to church except for weddings so I also knew that had nothing to do with his attitude. I always thought it was a control issue as he was a very in charge kind of guy...but a really good dad otherwise.
I was also raped (I've never even typed that or talked about that yet...seems odd to see that in print)and I gained weight very consiously wanting to but unattractive. I dealt with csa and in high school I also gained weight for the same reason. For me when I did have children it was like I was so busy that I lost the weight and busy enough I just set aside my issues. You never know children might be a break from some of this for you :). I always say if denial works go for it as it never lasts long enough.
It sounds like you are making some great progress and I'm so glad for you! You make me miss my old T as I had a very open relationship with him too.
Keep up the good work....blessings!Marie
Posted by alexandra_k on February 28, 2005, at 3:46:01
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2005, at 8:30:52
Yeah. I noticed that too. I gained a lot of weight on one of my medications. It took me a while, but I realised that that is right: people just pass over you with their gaze... Nobody honked and whistled when they drove past (hey - appalling habit guys).
It is nice. Worth staying overweight for, in fact.
I actually find it really offensive when strangers appraise me sexually. Or anyone who I don't want to be doing that, actually. Yuck.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 28, 2005, at 3:47:46
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger****, posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2005, at 9:50:35
You would fit right in with Tainui (a maori tribe). Women are supposed to have a blanket over them when they are lying down. It has to do with modesty. I feel uncomfortable uncovered too.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 28, 2005, at 3:54:27
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » fallsfall, posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2005, at 9:59:46
I am a conservative dresser as well.
For preference I like long sleeves with a highish neck. And long pants. Also a fan of blacks and greys and browns.You can do the formal / semiformal thing - and I have to say that personally I like that look anyway.
And then there are jeans and cargo pants of course ;-)
But can't do that in summer.
Well. I manage jeans all summer.
But have to move to short sleeved t-shirts.
Always feel a bit naked.
Bizzare.
I actually went for a swim the other day.
I realised that I have been avoiding that for a couple of years. I used to have a springsuit but managed to lose it somewhere along the line.
Long sleeved t-shirt and cycle shorts.
Still felt funny though.
Noticed the guys (of all ages) oggling the 12 year old girls.
Why do they have to do that?
Why do they want to do that?
I don't understand.Sorry. Bit of a ramble...
I have heard that sex is supposed to be an act of agression. But not always. Is it???
Posted by Dinah on February 28, 2005, at 9:56:24
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on February 28, 2005, at 3:54:27
Physically it sort of is.
I realized the other day that I'm wearing clothing one size too large, in most cases. I realized that many of my skirts fall low on my hips (covered by my big shirts.) I'm trying to decide if I want to try each garment and figure out what size is best, or just continue the tent look.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 28, 2005, at 17:23:08
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2005, at 9:56:24
I hate clothes shopping. I have no idea what size I am. Well, I could be one of about three different sizes. Bigger on my top half than my bottom half too.. I guess different brands size things a bit differently as well...
But I hate it.
I tend to buy things either a bit too big or a bit too small. Even though I try them on. I just can't gage it quite right...
Yeah, I sympathise with the 'tent look'. I have a lot of oversized t-shirts. And really baggy tracksuit pants. I wore them when I was my most overweight. They concealed me rather :-)
I really do hate clothes shopping...
Posted by gardenergirl on March 1, 2005, at 7:02:07
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger****, posted by Speaker on February 27, 2005, at 16:55:19
> I'm so glad you are connecting with your T and trust him enough to talk about the big S word!
Thanks, it feels surprisingly good.
> My father was just like your..."If God wanted holes in your head he would have put them there". My parents never went to church except for weddings so I also knew that had nothing to do with his attitude. I always thought it was a control issue as he was a very in charge kind of guy...but a really good dad otherwise.
Yeah, my mom always said it was due to his religious beliefs, but I never heard him ever talk about religion. Maybe he did to her, but I doubt it given their different backgrounds and lack of communication skills. But who knows?
>
> I was also raped (I've never even typed that or talked about that yet...seems odd to see that in print)and I gained weight very consiously wanting to but unattractive.Wow, are you okay after having written this? (((Marie))) I remember very clearly the first time I acknowledged what happened as rape. It was a date-like scenario, so I had lots of doubts and guilt (still do when I am letting my emotions rule). I also remember a lovely girl saying to me with a sad smile after I told her, "welcome to the club" and hugging me. It's sad that anyone else ever has to "qualify for membership", but it is helpful to know that others understand personally. (Please know she was not being at all insensitive. It's hard to convey that moment in print.)
>I dealt with csa and in high school I also gained weight for the same reason. For me when I did have children it was like I was so busy that I lost the weight and busy enough I just set aside my issues. You never know children might be a break from some of this for you :). I always say if denial works go for it as it never lasts long enough.
Hmmm, now if only I could get pregnant in new and mysterious ways, since the current method is not working well, mostly for lack of trying. :-/
>
> It sounds like you are making some great progress and I'm so glad for you! You make me miss my old T as I had a very open relationship with him too.
> Keep up the good work....blessings!
>
> MarieThanks for your post. I'm grateful for the support.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on March 1, 2005, at 7:03:56
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on February 28, 2005, at 3:47:46
> You would fit right in with Tainui (a maori tribe). Women are supposed to have a blanket over them when they are lying down. It has to do with modesty. I feel uncomfortable uncovered too.
LOL, somehow I think my very pale skin and red hair might get noticed, blanket or not. :)
Thanks,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on March 1, 2005, at 7:09:59
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on February 28, 2005, at 3:54:27
Ugh, swimsuits! I hate hate hate them. I always wear some nylon shorts with my suit. And I wore a bikini once when I was thin and my hubby and I were still dating. I didn't like the reaction I got from his brother, who I think was just trying to compliment me. I forget what he said, but sheesh, you aren't supposed to tell me you noticed, unless you are my sweetie! Anyway, no more bikinis for me, for that and other reasons (about 50+ of them).
Incidentally, I saw my GP yesterday, and we decided to up my thyroid meds (actually switching to Armour, but also upping the dose). I think recent extra 10 pounds or so are related to low thyroid function. Plus he gave me Topamax samples, but I want to wait til I see my pdoc on Friday before I take that for weight loss. But my insight has me feeling a bit more motivated to get healthy, even if that means getting a bit more attractive.
>
> I have heard that sex is supposed to be an act of agression. But not always. Is it???Well, I really hate that I feel that way about it. I never did prior to the rape. I even feel that way now about sex with my hubby, who is being very very understanding. Although I suppose it gets him off the hook for working on his own sex issues. ;)
But it is a very personal intrusion on your personal space. At least if invited, it's not a violation, but still a very personal space issue.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on March 1, 2005, at 7:13:49
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on February 28, 2005, at 17:23:08
> I hate clothes shopping.
Me too. I do 75% of mine on the internet. The other 25% I am not very likely to try stuff on, even if I'm right there in the store. It makes for a lot of returns. :(
gg
Posted by Dinah on March 1, 2005, at 9:32:17
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on March 1, 2005, at 7:13:49
I'm exactly like that. I think my catalog return shipping fees are higher than my clothing costs.
Posted by Dinah on March 1, 2005, at 9:36:27
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger**** » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on March 1, 2005, at 7:09:59
> But it is a very personal intrusion on your personal space. At least if invited, it's not a violation, but still a very personal space issue.
>
> gg
>If I could improve to that point of thinking, I'd be a lot better off. Part of me does feel that way, I guess, but another part feels like, invited or not, it's a violation. Maybe only part of me wholeheartedly feels like I've made the invitation.
Posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 10:43:02
In reply to Re: More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger****, posted by gardenergirl on March 1, 2005, at 7:02:07
GG, everybody else here who posted about their rapes.. if you are triggered about the guy, don't read this, because yes, I was raped as well.
It was date rape. I was eighteen.
I pretended it didn't happen. I actually put it out of my mind. But the fact is, I've had enormous trouble with sex ever since. Cannot reach the pinnacle with anyone. No trust. No trust. None.This man was such a pig. Such a big enormous pig, very brutal. A brute. But I tell myself men aren't really like that. And I've loved men since, I've learned to love them. And myself. I was innocent.
Posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 12:12:59
In reply to ****TRIGGERS****, posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 10:43:02
Oh dear, and I've realized just now that I'm coming up this year to the thirtieth anniversary of that. It happened in the fall, I think. Yes, September. Oh dear. I thought I'd forgotten all this stuff. Oh God oh dear oh man. Thank somebody that I have this therapist, but she's a woman and that's okay but women see things differently and it wasn't a woman that did this to me. It wasn't, it was a man. And I'm a sexual woman. I like sex, always have,except when I was repulsed by it, which I dont' think I realized I was until an experience I couldn't ignore happened. Oh dear, I don't think it's safe to go with this on the boards. This wouldn't be safe.
Posted by Aphrodite on March 1, 2005, at 14:01:45
In reply to More Freud stuff ...and new insight ***trigger****, posted by gardenergirl on February 26, 2005, at 23:54:10
I am late to your thread, GG, but just wanted to mention a couple of things. . .
First, I admire that you can discuss this with your T. There's no way I could, so that really speaks to the depth of your connection with him.
Secondly, I have thyroid issues as well and I don't know if you buy this kind of stuff (I'm not sure even I do), but many alternative healers who believe in mind-body connection say that thyroid disorders are a disruption of the second chakra which arises because of the inability to speak for oneself, or feeling silent. I also get a lot of sore throats, etc. which are also supposedly indicative of not being able to "tell" or "talk." It also kind of explains why women deal with thyroid disorders much more than men.
Lastly and most importantly, I just want to say how sorry I am for what happened to you and the understandable effects it has had on your daily life and how you see yourself. I am so glad you have a wonderful T to help you heal.
No great insight -- I just wanted to let you know you are in my heart.
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