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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 23:31:43
Okay, here's the deal. I know how you all think I should have dropped my T like a hot rock after the first session, but you know I'm so freaking bull headed, I felt like I had to make this work! Don't want to find a new T. Blah, blah, blah. Well tonight, this was the 4th session, I didn't really feel too much like my T knows me any better than he did after the 2nd session. He doesn't seem to remember stuff. I know I need to ask him if he takes notes. AND, here's the cincher....he took a phone call at the end of our session! Yes, I know you'll all say get out of there! BUT, I don't want to, I want to make this work, I want to try to stick it out and see if he can help me. Yes, I'm hurt, we were talking about some serious stuff, and I want to excuse the inexcusable. I can't even believe the staff knocked on his door during a session to tell him he had a call! They are NOT allowed to do this with my p-doc, so I don't know why they will do it with him. I guess every T sets his own policies. The call was brief, but still....
I just really wanted to vent because I'm hurt. I had a lot of anxiety going into this session, and felt a bit deflated afterwards and now. I don't want to find a new T. I guess I just wanted to cry on someone's shoulder. I don't really want to say anything to him either, I'm not sure I could. But I will tell him that I don't feel like he's gotten to know me any better, and that hurts. I have to go see my son's T tomorrow. Maybe I should leave him a note telling him that I feel like he's not getting to know me? or something like that? I want that connection, I like him, he's nice, but I don't feel like he's taking notes, or remembering from one session to the next. I don't know......
Jazzy
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 6, 2005, at 0:16:58
In reply to I know you all are going to blast me!, posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 23:31:43
There is something in your post that just sounds so much like me. I've never had a situation like that with a T, but I have had a number of other relationships in my life like that. It most typically happens with a romantic relationship for me. I know I'm in something that doesn't feel right and doesn't make me happy, but I stay...for months and months and months. I want to complain about it, but I feel funny going to my friends b/c I know that they are all going to say, "Just leave him!" But it never feels that simple from my side.
So, I guess what I am trying to say is: it could be really helpful to think about how this fits into the larger picture of your life. Do you usually take *&%$ from people that you shouldn't? Is it hard for you to leave bad relationships?
So, hugs from a fellow babbler that can (I think) understand a little piece of what you are feeling. You know in your heart what you want to do and when you can do it. Trust yourself and take care of yourself too.
Best,
EE
Posted by Shortelise on July 6, 2005, at 1:02:03
In reply to I know you all are going to blast me!, posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 23:31:43
consider yourself blasted.
:-)
ShortE
Posted by crazy teresa on July 6, 2005, at 1:15:51
In reply to I know you all are going to blast me!, posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 23:31:43
It is NOT your job to MAKE this guy a good T. If he chooses to be a dick, that's his choice and his problem, NOT yours. It is not YOUR fault he is not genuinely interested in helping you and now matter how bullheaded you are, you can't MAKE him help you.
Life is complicated enough! Let it go!
Think of it this way: In ten years will it matter that you dumped this guy? Nope, not if you go find someone better. BUT... In ten years will it matter that you're still with this guy trying to get somewhere? YES!!!
crazy t
Posted by alexandra_k on July 6, 2005, at 2:11:51
In reply to Not a blast, just a strong nudge! » Jazzed, posted by crazy teresa on July 6, 2005, at 1:15:51
Well...
I admire your tenacity in trying to stick with it rather than running away. It sounds like you really need to talk to him about some of your concerns. About whether he typically takes calls, and whether you are okay with that or not. Maybe he will take brief emergency calls. Maybe he will be brilliant with taking brief emergency calls from you as well. Maybe his kid had an accident and he was getting a call from the hospital for an update. I guess my point is that you don't know if you don't ask.
I'd really try to set this stuff up on the agenda for next time you see him. Then see how satisfyed you feel with that.
Posted by happyflower on July 6, 2005, at 6:02:25
In reply to I know you all are going to blast me!, posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 23:31:43
Hey Jazzy!
You already know what I think! :) Hang in there okay? (((((Jazzy)))))
Posted by LadyBug on July 6, 2005, at 7:42:19
In reply to I know you all are going to blast me!, posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 23:31:43
I think you should follow your own advice. If you like working with a dork that does that to you then I guess it's your choice. Down the road are you going to regret not finding someone better?? My t. has only taken one phone call in 8 1/2 years and it was before our session actually started and it was only for 1 min. or less. Phone calls are not accecptable, it's your time and your paying him.
I'd run and find someone good. There are plenty of good T's out there.
I'm sure you'll do what's best for you. Good Luck if you choose to stick with this guy. I'm not in your shoes. I've made plenty of mistakes along my way so I won't pass judement.
LadyBug
Posted by Shortelise on July 6, 2005, at 11:49:08
In reply to I know you all are going to blast me!, posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 23:31:43
I have read through what we've all posted and I see that none of us think that this is a good T. I'm really sorry, I know he's the one you've chosen.
In a way we are being supportinve, I guess. We're supporting what we all believe is right, which is that this guy is a dork and the fact that you've chosen him indicates something you might want to explore.
ShortE
Posted by Jazzed on July 6, 2005, at 12:08:17
In reply to (jazzy) » Jazzed, posted by Shortelise on July 6, 2005, at 11:49:08
Thanks EE, ShortE, happy, crazy T, alexandra, and lady bug,
I know you are all right. I don't know why I am being so bull headed about this. I think you are all probably right that this won't work out, whether it's now or later, when I'm emotionally invested - it's up to me. I don't know why it's so hard to even think about going out and looking for a new T.
I have made up my mind to leave him a note tonight when I go to see my son's T. I am going to tell him that I was hurt when he took the phone call, esp. because we were talking about something important, (and also because the call was frivolous in my opinion). I'm also going to tell him that I want to make a "connection" with him, but that I don't see how we can do that when he doesn't seem to remember stuff from week to week, and that hurts my feelings. I finally told him something I'd never told anyone in my life, to do that and then have him take a freaking phone call hurt. If it doesn't work out for me, maybe he'll at least think before he takes phone calls while he's with someone else.
I'm so depressed.
Jazzy
Posted by cricket on July 6, 2005, at 12:19:26
In reply to I know you all are going to blast me!, posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 23:31:43
Jazzed,
I guess I would be concerned because this is only the 4th session. Generally at the beginning, therapists are just listening to you and your story and why you're there. They're not pushing too hard (or maybe they are in CBT - I'm not sure about that) but I think for the most part those first few sessions are just a relief for the client, especially if you've never been in therapy or haven't for a long time. Ahh, here's someone who wants to listen and understand me and help me. I know that it was that way for me for at least a few months.
Then when you're deep into therapy and the attachment starts to kick in and the abandonment fears and the therapist will start to push and chip away at resistances and get at the deep underlying issues that's generally when it becomes so much more painful.
But with this guy it seems like you haven't established that first connection. Something to think about I guess.
Posted by Jazzed on July 6, 2005, at 13:23:48
In reply to Re: I know you all are going to blast me! » Jazzed, posted by cricket on July 6, 2005, at 12:19:26
Thanks cricket,
I don't feel that there's a connection yet. I know everyone is probably right. I am confused and feeling pretty stupid. I'm also hurt because of what happened. I think I need a good cry.
Jazzy
Posted by Tamar on July 6, 2005, at 17:06:12
In reply to Re: I know you all are going to blast me! » cricket, posted by Jazzed on July 6, 2005, at 13:23:48
((((Jazzy))))
I’m sorry you had such a hard time. And I do think it's rude to take phone calls in therapy, unless it's an emergency. Most things can wait half an hour; I'm sure someone could have taken a message for him.
I don’t want to knock him too much though. I’m just sorry he hurt you. I know you had your reasons for choosing to work with him, and maybe addressing this kind of stuff is some of the work you need to do.
I suspect that his CBT orientation may be one of the issues. They don’t always seem to encourage the attachment as much as psychodynamic therapists, as far as I can tell (but maybe I’ve got that wrong?). But you do need to be able to build some level of connection and trust.
> I don't feel that there's a connection yet. I know everyone is probably right. I am confused and feeling pretty stupid. I'm also hurt because of what happened. I think I need a good cry.
You aren’t stupid at all. You had your reasons for choosing him. You thought he could help you. And maybe he can. I reckon you’re probably a pretty good judge of character most of the time. Would you agree?
I think perhaps you may need to be fairly direct with him about your needs. Therapy with him might be less comforting and less gentle than with other therapists. But nevertheless he still might be the right therapist for you. At the very least, you can give him a piece of your mind at your next appointment.
What’s your gut instinct? Can you work through this with him? Or do you feel it’s absolutely inexcusable?
Posted by Jazzed on July 6, 2005, at 21:25:33
In reply to No blasting here » Jazzed, posted by Tamar on July 6, 2005, at 17:06:12
Thanks Tamar, you made me feel a lot better. I agree, phone calls shouldn't be taken unless it's an emergency. I can see if someone is sick, has a broken down car, and I'm probably more lenient than most, but those are the kinds of things I call my husband for during work, but only if I NEED him.
When I went back to him after that first appt. I was intruigued by someone who pushed my buttons, made me think SO much about what he said, and eventually come to admit he was probably right about a lot of the things he said. I didn't want someone who was going to be soft on me. I wanted someone who was going to really push me. Someone who I would like, but not be afraid to get mad at or raise issues with. I have never had that in any of the men in my life. My husband is loving and supportive, but he doesn't push me at all. My father was verbally and emotionally abusive. I could never raise any issues with him because I was always wrong no matter what, and he would scream me down, and make me feel worthless.
The T did talk about making a connection, and I want that, but I agree with you about trust, and part of that is trusting that he will be fully present for me during sessions.
Sometimes I'm a good judge of character. Sometimes I'm the last to "get it" when someone is bad. Most of the time I'm pretty cautious with people I don't know, but other times, when I want to trust, I can be a pretty lousy judge of character I guess. My dad's wife had him out of his bank acct., and into the "home" before I admitted to myself that she was bad.I had to go see my son's T tonight, so I dropped my T a note and told him that I left having mixed feelings about our appt. last night. I told him that I was hurt that he took a phone call when we were into really important stuff. I'm mad that the staff even has the okay to knock on his door during a session! But maybe that's his policy, I don't know. I told him I didn't feel like he was getting to know me any better. I gave him an out in case I'm too much bother for him. And that's fine, but tell me now before I get attached! I did ask him to call me, so we will see. I'm supposed to have an appt. next Wed., but you can be sure that if he doesn't call, I'll cancel, have a good cry, and get over it.
I do want to work through it, or at least try. I have had a terrible time in my life with people who I find difficult. I realize that some of it is me not just them, and I need to learn more effective ways of confronting issues w/o getting overly emotional or mad. On the other hand if I have to get all anxious and upset after stuff like this, then I don't know if it's worth it. I don't know if he'll respond to me or not, we'll see.
I love my son's T. She's very warm and very insightful, but I don't like to work with women. I never form any attachment at all, and I can take it or leave it. I also have never been able to tackle the issues from my past with a woman. I just feel like I would be judged. She is an older woman, I know I wouldn't be comfy discussing some of my stuff with her, and since she works with my kids, I would feel more under the gun as a mom. She is seeing me every several weeks and we do talk about things I can do to be a more effective mom, and to feel okay about the way I'm am - high strung, tightly wound, critical, whatever. She gave me a new take on it, and for that I gotta love her! ; )
Thanks for your support Tamar, I really do appreciate it, even if I find out that I have made a mistake. I know probably everyone is right, but sometimes I have to learn things the hard way.
Jazzy
Posted by happyflower on July 6, 2005, at 22:22:40
In reply to Re: No blasting here » Tamar, posted by Jazzed on July 6, 2005, at 21:25:33
I hope you hear from your T soon! I hope you can work it all out! (((((Jazzy)))))
Posted by Jazzed on July 6, 2005, at 22:25:38
In reply to ((((((((Jazzy))))))), posted by happyflower on July 6, 2005, at 22:22:40
> I hope you hear from your T soon! I hope you can work it all out! (((((Jazzy)))))
Thanks Happy! ; )
You are so sweet!
Even though you know I'm being a dope, you hug me and want me to be a happyflower too!Jazzy
Posted by cockeyed on July 6, 2005, at 22:55:59
In reply to I know you all are going to blast me!, posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 23:31:43
hi, i feel like a jerk butting in like this. i'm a guy and I've had one encounter with apdoc which still leaves me frothing at the mouth. he's a member of the group my doc belongs to. Frankly, I'd better just leave this alone...i wrote him a leterr[bfd] telling him what I thought of him. blah, blah, blah.
But you have all the right in the world not only to be upset but...well, here i go frothing at the mouth. "abusive father who..." Me too and I still hate him for what he did to me.[wnated to keep me from getting a swelled head] parents don't realize that they are the gods when it comes to a kid. and this t seems to need areminder that he "owes" you. Especially in as much as what you needed to say was important and he, I guess, thought nothing of snubbing you. I think you're brave to keep on keeping on.I think you have to call this guy on his insensitivity. Why not blast him. See how he likes it. I quit a guy because he yawned too much. But I didn't say anything, just quit.
good luck and I hope I'm not being intrusive or foolish. But I know how you feel and not only does it hurt, to me it's maddening. But I think I have an anger problem. I wish you the best. you're really lucky to have such a group of friends who support you. cockeyed.
Posted by Jazzed on July 6, 2005, at 23:09:29
In reply to Re: I know you all are going to blast me!, posted by cockeyed on July 6, 2005, at 22:55:59
Thanks cockeyed,Not intrusive at all. My husband put it well when he said the T discounted my feelings, minimalized them by taking the call. We had a good laugh about the potential situations that could have been, and it could have been worse. I told my husband he should have been a T. He's offered to "shrink" me, but I told him I have too many messes from the past. Who doesn't? Well, he doesn't. He just forgets it all, which works for him. He never holds a grudge, he never remembers my misdeeds, and there have been plenty. I love him so much! ; )
My p-doc is awesome! He's gracious, well mannered, and caring. I'm glad to have found him. And, you're right, I do feel really blessed to be supported here. I know I'm maddening, I know I'm bull headed, and stubborn, etc...
I did have to laugh about your comment about the yawning. This T has yawned several times too, and I wanted to ask him if I was keeping him up. I know I can be pretty BORING!!! But, then again, I almost yawned on my kid's T tonight, so what can I say? I was really interested in what she was saying, just tired. My T is probably like me, stays up too late playing on the freaking computer. I should be in bed NOW! LOL
Nighty night,
Jazzy
Posted by alexandra_k on July 6, 2005, at 23:26:49
In reply to Re: I know you all are going to blast me! » cockeyed, posted by Jazzed on July 6, 2005, at 23:09:29
I don't think you are being a dope. I think you did the best thing you could have done. You were concerned and you told him your concerns. Now it is up to him and lets just wait and see how he deals with it.
I guess...
I have a tendancy to run a little too early.
Sounds like you might have a tendancy to run a little too late.
It can be hard to find the middle ground and figure out which is best.You gave him a chance.
There is a possibility that you can work things out.
Either way...
You gave him a chance.
Good for you.
Posted by Jazzed on July 7, 2005, at 7:13:41
In reply to Re: I know you all are going to blast me! » Jazzed, posted by alexandra_k on July 6, 2005, at 23:26:49
Thanks Alexandra,
Yeah, I probably run too late. Looking at the bills today, I figured if he can't help me I don't have a lot of time to mess with him. So, if he responds to me, I'll give it another try. If not, well, there's my answer right there, we could use the extra money to pay other bills.
Jazzy
Posted by alexandra_k on July 7, 2005, at 8:28:04
In reply to Re: I know you all are going to blast me! » alexandra_k, posted by Jazzed on July 7, 2005, at 7:13:41
Yeah. That sounds good.
:-)
Posted by happyflower on July 7, 2005, at 14:59:52
In reply to Re: I know you all are going to blast me! » Jazzed, posted by alexandra_k on July 7, 2005, at 8:28:04
Just thinking about you Jazzy, have you heard from your T yet? How are you feeling? I hope you are okay. :)
Posted by Jazzed on July 7, 2005, at 15:21:24
In reply to Any word from your T yet?, posted by happyflower on July 7, 2005, at 14:59:52
> Just thinking about you Jazzy, have you heard from your T yet? How are you feeling? I hope you are okay. :)
Thanks Happy. Nope no word. Oh well, it's not like I was invested in this.
Jazzy
Posted by happyflower on July 7, 2005, at 15:51:33
In reply to Re: Any word from your T yet? » happyflower, posted by Jazzed on July 7, 2005, at 15:21:24
Oh Jazzy,
I know you want to hear from him, you don't fool me! You are invested in this, I think. Mabye you want to pull away because of what was discused last session with him. I always want to pull away after I spill my stuff. It is a good defense from getting hurt, it has worked for me for years. Please don't give up! I would suggest you call him if you don't hear from him saying that if he doesn't respond to your note, you will cancel your appointments. He might think you are testing him, I am not sure. Please hang in there and not give up yet, okay? (((((Jazzy)))))
Posted by Jazzed on July 7, 2005, at 16:12:08
In reply to (((((((((((((JAZZY))))))))))))))))))) » Jazzed, posted by happyflower on July 7, 2005, at 15:51:33
> Oh Jazzy,
> I know you want to hear from him, you don't fool me! You are invested in this, I think. Mabye you want to pull away because of what was discused last session with him. I always want to pull away after I spill my stuff. It is a good defense from getting hurt, it has worked for me for years. Please don't give up! I would suggest you call him if you don't hear from him saying that if he doesn't respond to your note, you will cancel your appointments. He might think you are testing him, I am not sure. Please hang in there and not give up yet, okay? (((((Jazzy)))))
Thanks for the hugs Happy. I know you want me to be happy, and I appreciate that.I am seriously NOT testing him. I think I wrote a very sincere note, asking for clarification of what I should expect, asking if perhaps CBT isn't right for me, and telling him that I was really hurt by his taking a phone call during our session. I asked him to call me back. I don't think I could have been any more honest and clear. If he chooses not to call me back, then I will know what kind of a person/T he really is.
Jazzy
Posted by alexandra_k on July 7, 2005, at 18:44:40
In reply to Re: (((((((((((((JAZZY))))))))))))))))))), posted by Jazzed on July 7, 2005, at 16:12:08
No - not testing, being upfront.
I know it can be hard to be patient...
Hang in there.
:-)
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