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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on February 7, 2007, at 0:47:26
I've been working on a visualization exercise as I try to work towards feeling more empowered to stand up for myself. But I can't do it. And I'm so ashamed and disgusted with myself that I can't do it, even though it is ONLY in MY imagination -- I can't even pretend in my own head that I'm strong.
The idea is to figure out how you would save yourself from an abusive situation. You imagine a scene and then you bring your adult self into it and you save yourself from the abuse. So I can get the scene held in my mind but when I enter, I freeze. I stand in my own imagination watching my dad abuse me, terrified that he will notice me. I want to yell at him to get off of her, I want to strike him with something...but instead I get sick to my stomach. Over and over I've tried this. Over and over I'm sick.
I told my therapist today that I've been trying to do this. He had me walk him through it and I ended up in tears -- why can't I even try to fake being brave? He suggested that maybe we need to do it together, that I take him in with me when the adult enters to save the child. That way I'm not alone, trying to save myself, by myself. I hesitated, after all, this is an empowerment exercise. And things have been really hard between us, I've been angry with him for "bad" session a week ago. He's OK with my anger (I'm not) and we keep talking about it, trying to reconnect. (I think this is another post, though.)
Part of me wonders if I can't do this exercise because I've been operating without a net, so-to-speak, feeling so alone and scared. Or maybe I'm just not ready to confront the abusing dad. I have completely separated the dad from my childhood from the dad who reentered my life after I was 20. They seem like two very different people. They aren't, there have been enough things over the years to tell me that this man can still be scary and unpredictable, but I only see him 1x a year, if that, so I can cope.
What do you guys think? Should I keep trying to work on this on my own? Or should I try it with my therapist? Or should I just give up and know that I'll never be brave enough...I couldn't save myself then and I still can't.
Posted by annierose on February 7, 2007, at 6:14:04
In reply to Helping Yourself - csa trigger, posted by Daisym on February 7, 2007, at 0:47:26
I would continue to try this exercise with your therapist. He can help walk you through it, holding your hand (so to speak) and together you can figure out what the adult in you would like to say/do. Confronting your dad IS scary. Be gentle on yourself. This is a difficult exercise and who better to protect you from the pain that it will bring up than your t. And even though you are angry with him, maybe this is an excellent exercise to help build that trust back into the relationship.
You are not empowered any less by having him (your T) there. Even as an adult, we still need help learning a new skill --- whether it's a new computer program, learning how to ski, cook, do yoga, etc --- having another adult's helping hand is always a good thing. Especially when it's coming from a person's heart and love for you.
That being said, you do not have to push yourself to do this yet. Maybe try it w/T and if it's too difficult, it's okay to say, "I'm not ready yet." I know the business person in you wants to tackle every situation to its full resolution. But it's also empowering to stop and say "Not yet."
Posted by Fallsfall on February 7, 2007, at 8:43:59
In reply to Helping Yourself - csa trigger, posted by Daisym on February 7, 2007, at 0:47:26
Absolutely let him help you. This sounds like one of those times when working gradually up to something would be helpful. Maybe you can start by walking in the room, seeing your dad, and then leaving the room and telling your therapist that he is doing a bad thing. Then tell your therapist while you are in the room. It may take a while before you can tell you dad yourself - even though it is just in your imagination.
You are really brave, Daisy, to do this. Let him help you.
And keep in touch?
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 7, 2007, at 8:47:56
In reply to Re: Helping Yourself - csa trigger » Daisym, posted by annierose on February 7, 2007, at 6:14:04
Daisy
sounds hard.
I don't know what the right answer it. I think that part of it is learning when the "freeze" reaction to terror is appropriate and when the "run" reaction to terror is appropriate.Can you practice on more general scenarios first, like what you would do if you were mugged? Then gradually work in the characters involved- like child-Daisy is being mugged, then child-Daisy is being mugged by present-day dad, then by former-dad...
you can learn from yourself- what is it- the violence? the fear of freezing? the shock of the abusive situation.
I think that your mind is trying to protect you, and it's OKAY to take your T along with you (even if you're grumpy with him). T has been there all along. He's your witness, remember? He's not there to MAKE you do anything or correct you if you do something "wrong". T is there to support you. That's his job.
When you're ready to fly solo you will fly. Little birds probably look pretty goofy flying, but they don't have a net. you CAN do this, but maybe your feathers are still growing?
-Ll
Posted by muffled on February 7, 2007, at 12:46:08
In reply to Helping Yourself - csa trigger, posted by Daisym on February 7, 2007, at 0:47:26
The idea is to figure out how you would save yourself from an abusive situation. You imagine a scene and then you bring your adult self into it and you save yourself from the abuse.
**I'm sorry, I don't understand this exercise?
The child could do nothing, or course the child could do nothing. What could the child have DONE??????????/I do not understand this?
The child is safe now, big person can protect the body.
But THEN?
I do not understand?
It seems like torture?
The child could not stop it.
It was the way it was.
Bad, bad, bad.
But now is safe. Body is safe now.
Grrr, think of power of anger. Anger and rage have superhuman powers.
The part that has the rage can be superhuman.
Mebbe I all mixed up.
Sorry.
Muffled
Posted by happykat on February 7, 2007, at 14:19:27
In reply to Helping Yourself - csa trigger, posted by Daisym on February 7, 2007, at 0:47:26
Daisy,
I loathe this exercise even though I know it's suppose to be helpful. I had a hard time with not wanting to go back into any situation with the abuser in it. Once I jumped over that hurdle I couldn't seem to fight back and kept resorting to freezing and feelings of helplessness. Eventually my t gave up and quit making me do it. I think if I could have taken my adult self back or taken t with me it might have been more effective. I don't know. I think it would be good having your t by your side.
One thing that has been suggested to me is piggybacking anger from ongoing real life experiences and trying to do the exercise when I'm already good and fired up over something else. Haven't tried it yet but sounds like it might be helpful. Someone else suggested martial arts classes for empowerment. Still mulling that one over too.
Regards,
Kat
Posted by antigua on February 7, 2007, at 21:03:23
In reply to Helping Yourself - csa trigger, posted by Daisym on February 7, 2007, at 0:47:26
Oh Daisy, I did the same thing last week with my hypnotist. Rescripting is what he kept calling it. I could be Superwoman, the most powerful person in the world and get my father away from me, but I couldn't do it. I couldn't even imagine myself as powerful. In part because my father was so passive. No use kicking a dead horse. Set off lots of things, my T says I probably wasn't ready for this, yet.
best,
antigua
Posted by littleone on February 8, 2007, at 20:34:28
In reply to Helping Yourself - csa trigger, posted by Daisym on February 7, 2007, at 0:47:26
Hi daisy,
I think I would find this very difficult as well (although it does sound like a very worthwhile thing to work at).
I think the biggest problem for me would be that my adult could walk into the visualisation, but as soon as it heard/saw someone angry/abusing/etc, that would trigger a young part. And the young part would not be able to stand up for me. And its strong emotions would override whatever the adult me was trying to do.
Is that what is happening for you? Or is it only
your adult there and it is the adult who is terrified and becoming sick?> And I'm so ashamed and disgusted with myself that I can't do it, even though it is ONLY in MY imagination -- I can't even pretend in my own head that I'm strong.
I think that working on this exercise takes a lot of courage and strength. Especially when you don't succeed the very first time. Persistence is a very worthy quality/strength.
> What do you guys think? Should I keep trying to work on this on my own? Or should I try it with my therapist?I think it would be important to break it down into smaller turtle steps. I really liked the ideas from some of your other responses re how to do this. They were very clever!
And I do think an important turtle step would be to have your T helping you - at least in these early stages. Then as you build up your turtle steps you could work towards standing up to your dad on your own. I know you mentioned some problems you're having in your T relationship. Sorry, but that is not a good enough reason to pull back from him! Doing this exercise may help towards improving things between you both again.
I'm not sure how healthy it is to continue on the exercise as you currently are. It almost seems as if you're allowing yourself to be abused, putting yourself in the abusive situation, etc without any extra armour/defenses/skills/etc. I'm not sure how well I'm articulating this. I think it would be better to be doing the exercise at the level you're attempting once you have extra tools/skills at your disposal. Until then, I think it is much safer for you to work at a lower level in order to build up the tools and skills you need. Did that make sense?
This definately is not saying you're a failure, etc. Think of it as heading for the same objective using a smarter strategy. You'll probably have a greater chance of success if you work up to it, instead of making yourself sick and terrified each time.
> Or should I just give up and know that I'll never be brave enough...I couldn't save myself then and I still can't.
Definately not!!! You can do this daisy. You save yourself every day. You have the bravery and courage inside you. Hold your T's hand and take the little turtle steps.
Posted by Daisym on February 8, 2007, at 23:47:21
In reply to Re: Helping Yourself - csa trigger » Daisym, posted by annierose on February 7, 2007, at 6:14:04
I brought up in group last night that I was having trouble with the exercise. I wasn't the only one! One person said she thought she couldn't do it because she didn't have kids yet and didn't know how to nurture or comfort a young child.
For me, it is purely about fear. And shame, I think. When I pull up a memory of me as a young girl and then add myself to it as a grown up, (so there are two of me there) the response is still the same. The grown up me doesn't know how to save the younger me because the only way to do that would be to acknowledge what is happening. And we must never ever do that. When it was happening, I dissociated completely. And afterwards, everybody pretended everything was fine and normal. To not be fine and normal is to invite further attention, anger, humiliation and potential violence. I believe that, even now. The adult can't risk it.
And there is another part, that is twisted and irrational. I don't want to embarrass my dad...I'm ashamed for him. I feel like I caused so much disruption and disappointment for him already, this would just add to it. After all, I love him, he is my dad.
I talked it over with my therapist a little bit today. I just told him that I'd reached the conclusion that it was too hard for me to do this right now. Even pretending. So I was leaving it alone, at least for a while. He was OK with that. He seems to think that the work needs to turn back towards me for a little while - not so much what was done but the fact that I think I had such a role in it. It is scary to believe that I had/have the power to "make" someone behave badly. I don't think I'm the cause -- but I believe I am. Does that make sense?
Anyway - thanks for all the feedback and the suggestions of how to work with this. I'll come back to it when I'm more ready, if ever.
Hugs for all,
Daisy
Posted by muffled on February 11, 2007, at 17:44:31
In reply to Re: Helping Yourself - csa trigger, posted by muffled on February 7, 2007, at 12:46:08
I'm sorry if I posted a wrong thing? But I do not understand that excercise?
Maybe cuz I already have protection? I have 3 levels, so maybe thats why?
I packed a knife since I was 7 or 8 I think.
I wish I could send Nasty to you daisy. Nasty is TOUGH.
I created EP myself I think as a teen, this one don't feel much and does have the ability to physically hurt another human being if necessary. I worked hard on EP.
The protections are good to have.
Do you have no protection parts daisy :( ?
Mebbe you could train to have protection like me?
I learned to fight. And to fight right w/knife. Defense, offense. Where to walk safely, where to hit, where not to hit. How to dodge. How to find weapons whereever you are. How to be cool if confronted. Lotsa stuff like that. I could go anywhere anytime, least in my city. Well I DID avoid known gang turf. I DID have some 'situations' come up. Could have gone bad but didn't. I was always able to walk/run away.
So I dunno. Can you do so0mething like that? mebbe thru some self defense group? I self trained, so thats possible too.
I think the biggest hurdle for me was creating EP, so I would even be able to hurt another, cuz that goes totally against my grain.
Wish I could help you some.
Muffled
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