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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by widget on August 28, 2007, at 10:10:45
Yesterday, I went to my usual Monday therapy. It turned out to be surprisingly difficult and sad for me. My therapist is encouraging me to widden my circle of friends. I agree; good idea. Hard idea. For some reason, it brought me back to my strong, positive feelings toward him. I shared those feelings ("you know, I adore you") to which he said, "That's sweet (SWEET?) of you to say but I cannot respond in any way due to boundary rules." I was put off by his rather cold delivery (was he angry? better to tell me) and felt like he was a policeman reading me my Miranda rights. He was very stiff and unapproachable. He then said I was using projective identification by seeing in him the qualities that are good in me. I thought about this and agreed. However, I responded that what was wrong with appreciating admittedly good qualities in him which I also share? Makes all the sense in the world to me and explains why he is to appealing to me. He continued that he would hope I could learn to love those qualities in myself. Ok.
I feel like he wants me to make a major leap from where I am and where he wants me to be. It is as if I never rode a bike before and he wants me to enter a bike marathon; good for my confidence, etc. Isn't he supposed to meet me where I am and go from there? I don't object to his goals but I need smaller steps, "baby steps" as what he seems to expect sounds daunting. I can't even relate to what he suggests except intellectually, so I revert to clinging to him. He's always seemed safe and accepting. Too much at once.
I feel I am failing here. He said he would be my mirror and reflect me back to myself. He said he only wants me to be the real me. Well, this is the real me. This is where I am. Is this a double message? Maybe he is tired of me. Anyway, I was amazed at how this affected me later. I couldn't sleep last night; too much anger. Feels better to write about it. Thanks.
'
Posted by JoniS on August 28, 2007, at 11:17:21
In reply to bad, sad therapy session, posted by widget on August 28, 2007, at 10:10:45
Widget,
I typed 3-4 paragraphs then I accidentally hit the "reset" button and it was all wiped out. Now I have to be brief as I have an appointment.
Hopefully several others can give you their input as well, but here's my 2 cents. I think you're right about "baby steps" or at least a better transition from (for lack of better terms) infant to middle aged in a relatively short period of time.
I know there are different types of therapy that I'm not familiar with, but my response to your situation would be to see if he continues to push in that direction in the next session. Also see if he allows you to talk about what bothered you about the last session. It is concerning to me that he would not let you say how you felt about him, or at least help you to feel normal and fine about your tender feelings. Even though the projection is probably accurate, you still need to process those feelings. My T would have just listened and stayed calm & comfortable, and given me positive feedback in that situation, as it has occurred several times in my therapy. It sounds like your T was very uncomfortable hearing about it, and to me, that isn't good, nor the actions of a good, experienced & ethical T. But like I said, If it were me, I wouldn't write him off yet, but I'd only give it one more session and assume the previous one was just an "off" day for him, or personal issues on his mind.
You asked if you got a double message from him, and I think "yes" you did. I would have had trouble sleeping and been angry too if it were me. Hopefully you can talk about this (difficult as it would be, it is how to grow) in your next session.
I hope your anxieties and anger calm down some so you can sleep better. Most importantly, don't put any fault on yourself.
Good Luck & Take Care
Joni
Posted by honore on August 28, 2007, at 13:00:59
In reply to bad, sad therapy session, posted by widget on August 28, 2007, at 10:10:45
What happened with your T reminds me of interactions with my T, when I'm very focussed on something that we've discussed, that he can't do or give or be. If I can't move on to other things, he becomes frustrated and unwilling to engage in the topic. His view has been that beyond a certain point, what I'm saying isn't a discussion, or exploration of an issue, but a sort of refusal to accept a limitation or need of his, as a therapist doing therapy in a way that he finds ethically or even emotionally acceptable for himself.
He has said at times that I'm trying to make him feel guilty, or otherwise am avoiding exploring this need I have, or other things that would be productive. So saying over and over that I want or need something in a sort of hurt or angry way, is mostly to try to get him give me whatever it is, somehow, rather than acknowledging the limitation, and learning how to get things that I need despite limitations. I suppose if I took it further, his point could be that that's the way much of life is, despite how much at times it hurts or is uncomfortable, or feels like a loss, but there are still valuable things in those situations, which we could reach and make use of.
So I think it's mostly that he already knows and feels my need or wish, and can't fulfill it, and would like to be helpful, or have meaningful time with me. It just isn't meaningful to go over certain things, or it wipes out the possibility of other meaning.
So I guess he might think you do know how to ride the bike, but are refusing to do it, because somehow you feel as if that would be accepting something that you aren't ready to accept- but also aren't working on being able to accept it. At least, that's what my T felt and feels about those discussions.
His stiffness and coldness might be because he doesn't want to be overtly annoyed, or more hurtful, but he also doesn't feel that there's more to say, other than that he cares about you and thinks well of you, but that it's not part of the relationship to be involved romantically. I know there are times when I don't want to accept decisions my t makes about lots of things-- but over time I've realized that it doesn't go anywhere to dwell on it-- except to hurt and empty out my own mind, and the time together.
Maybe that doesn't help-- I know there are times when nothing does. But I guess I sort of think there's nothing to do but close the door on certain things as much as possible, in order to have whatever other plenitudes there are.
Honore
Posted by widget on August 28, 2007, at 18:34:31
In reply to Re: bad, sad therapy session, posted by JoniS on August 28, 2007, at 11:17:21
Hi, Joni, I can't tell you how much your message meant to me. I feel not so alone. I hope to be able to talk to him about his reaction to my feelings being stated. Has something changed, have his rules changed, or was he just annoyed that "here I go again?" Whatever, for the therapy (and for me) I think something needs to be explored. And, maybe I'll be sorry I bring it up but that's my fear speaking. At this point, I feel negatively toward him. If he was trying to prove no one is perfect, he succeded. This seems new and I need to process it. thanks so much for the support!
Posted by widget on August 28, 2007, at 18:41:14
In reply to Re: bad, sad therapy session, posted by honore on August 28, 2007, at 13:00:59
To honore, I appreciate the in-depth response you gave me. You make a lot of sense and gives me some balance. I've been in therapy with him for 4 1/2 years and this is not like him. I am sure I could be annoying but anytime I've apologized for being so repetitive he has assured me its appropriate and IMPORTANT to express these feelings. Why can't I seem to accept that he will not see me the way I see him? I hate how careful he is. God forbid I would misinterpret (ha, I may have!) something he said, although the misinterpretation is not what he must guard against. I seem stuck on the fact that he doesn't find me irresistable! Believe me, that is not characteristic of me. Ah, I bet part of it is because he is so warm and kind usually. That has usually meant the person was attracted to me. hmmm. Thanks, again.
Posted by RealMe on August 28, 2007, at 21:22:54
In reply to bad, sad therapy session, posted by widget on August 28, 2007, at 10:10:45
widget
I am sorry about your therapy session being so upsetting. I read and re-read what you wrote, and of course I wasn't there. Nevertheless, might you have misinterpreted something or things? Might you have read something into his responses that he did not intend? The reason I ask is becasue I do that, and as was pointed out to me here, I did misinterpret what my therapist meant the last session when he said, "you're just a person" after he said I was not a terrible person. This all happend as I was walking out the door.
I certainly empathize with you. Though our situations are not the same, today I went through something similar. I wanted to know why my therapist could say he does not like me, why he can say I am sweet (what is it with that word!!) and tender and all sorts of nice things, but he won't say if he likes me. So I put it to him today, and I told him is released from any obligation he might feel toward continuing with me. He said he doesn't want to stop seeing me. I then said if he doesn't like me I am not sure I want to see him and risk being hurt again. He then said he did not want to answer my question yet as he does not know enough yet what is behind this need I have for him to like me. I think to myself, "Oh for crying out loud." But then I thought about how I basically liked everyone I worked with when I did therapy, and I understand there is something likeable about everyone, some more than others. But I must have had a funny look on my face as my therapist said, "Forget about your head and all the things you tell yourself; what does your heart tell you?" I just stared at him and tried to get in touch with that, and he said looking very sad it seemed, you don't know anything in your heart? I tried some more to let go of my head trip, and then I looked at him and said, yes, I think you do like me, and he shook his head yes. I don't see this as being the end of things for me though. And likely I will start to have even stronger feelings, and then I tell him. I already know, and he knows I know that there will never be anything between us except therapy. Oh someday as I already did at a workshop when I first started seeing him, he was a presenter as was the doctor who is head of inpatient treatment at U of C. Very weird. But my T knew I was coming and had said good.
So, I am not sure why he had to add the boundary rules piece. I would be pissed about that too as I am sure you already knew about the boundaries. So I would want to know what that was about. I would write it all down, I would or else I would forget. Then, I would take it to therapy and ask for clarification and let him know I can't leap yet. Sounds like you are scared, and so he needs to help you with that and how come you are scared. Also is there some resistance on your part to get into some topic??? I really don't know, and am not really asking for a response. Just could that be true. I know for me I try to focus on other stuff to avoid the csa and other stuff. Just my thoughts. Toss them if they don't fit.
RealMe
(OzLand)
Posted by widget on August 29, 2007, at 1:10:08
In reply to Re: bad, sad therapy session » widget, posted by RealMe on August 28, 2007, at 21:22:54
To Real Me, You are the third person who has responded to my posting and each one of you has added real wisdom for me to mull over. You have excellent points. You sound just like a therapist! (That is a compliment.) Perhaps I am responding to him with a bit too much of my "heart" or gut. Your comment that I may be avoiding some more difficult issue is intriguing. Of course, I consciously am honestly not aware of this. But, could it be?
I related so well to your response (feeling) toward the "just a person" comment. I can see me doing the same. Oh, but perspective is a wonderful thing.
I think you were very brave to discuss your feelings of whether your therapist likes you (truly as a person). I am basically doing the same thing. And, I know you are insightful in my situation.
I can only add a yes to all of your other comments (other posts) about your belief in psychoanalysis. I, too, began as a behaviorist, having behaviorist mentor in college who meant the world to me. I agree with your "ugh" as a sum up of that stage. Yet, of course, I wouldn't throw out the professor who inspired me then, not for anything. Of course, that was because of the person he was and not the theory, thus adding support to the psychoanalytical/psychotherapy treatment as the one of choice. So, I am running on, amazed at the power of my emotions (I think I could supply energy to a city with them) and grateful to you and my other respondants for your/their help.
I can only hope that if there is an issue behind all of this I do reach it and I imagine the only way to do so it to trust the process, not force it out (won't work that way). I am grateful for the posting. You put a lot into your comments.
So, onward, with courage!
Posted by RealMe on August 29, 2007, at 23:11:47
In reply to Re: bad, sad therapy session » RealMe, posted by widget on August 29, 2007, at 1:10:08
One of the most difficult parts of therapy is that it becomes what seems like a one-sided intimate relationship. That is because it seems the therapist knows so much about you, and you know nothing or little about the therapist. For example, I know my therapist is married and has three daughters because he has a picture of him with them in his office, and I commented on it one time early on. He said who they were, and I said they were lucky to have a father like him, and he said, "I am the one who is truely blessed." HUM. I said, so are you. He did not know yet that I don't have children, that I tried, and could never get pregnant.
So, my therapist is learning all sorts of "facts" so to speak about me. But, he says those things are not what are important. He says the process is what is important--what transpires between us. Still it is one sided, and the idea that I might have all sorts of feelings about him is unnerving. His feelings for me, I suspect, will remain the same--someone who he likes and wants to help. I think that is best even though there may be times I might wish it was something different.
So, the "intimacy" is for a different reason--not to lead to a change in our relationship except to the extent that I become more trusting and less inclined to misinterpret, etc. He is there to help me see what goes on with me in relation to others and through him. Already it has been the case that I have reacted to him as if he was my mother. God forbid! and thought he was being critical of me.
I am tired and probably not explaining this well. My point is that your therapist is saying he will be your mirror meaning he can reflect back to you what you are about. He is right. What you think about him is what he is reflecting back to you about you. Is he like that too; who knows; obviously not all the time. Reality is he is just human too. What if you did get more from him?? What if he were to say I adore you so much that I can't think straight anymore. Then, how could he help you. Or if he said I adore you so much that I don't think it is wise for us to meet anymore as my feelings are getting in the way of helping you.
I fantasized about my old therapist from the 80's and wanted him to be my father, but when it came right down to it, it is not what I really wanted. I wanted to be understood and valued. I wanted to know I was a worthwhile person, and with my therapists help at the time, I was able to see this. It didn't happen because he said he liked me or adored me or thought the world of me or even because he said nothing on the subject (this is from the 80's); it was because once I experienced his dedication and committment to me, I could start to learn to accept myself and care about myself. I wanted him to be the father I never had, and once in a more regressed state I tried to put my head down on his lap, and he pushed me away. I felt so horrible at the time and was just sobbing, but he was right to do that. I see that now as I think about it I would have regressed even more had he allowed me to do that. I would have wanted to do it more and probably have wanted him to hug me and to put his arms around me, etc. Well I really didn't need that. I did not have that when I was younger, and I learned that I was the one who had to be kind and caring to that person who never had that as a child.
I could go on, but pay attention to what your therapist is saying this means about you and what that is all about. And I suppose, what does it mean when you can't have something you think you want and need. How do you view yourself--both positive and negative qualities. And how would it help to have your therapist say he adored you. Would you feel more postive about yourself or more positive about him. Or would you feel you are more in control or have more power because you got him to say he adored you. I'm fishing and only you can answer for yourself.
RealMe
(Oz)
This is the end of the thread.
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