![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on June 23, 2011, at 8:46:39
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/health/23lives.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all
Posted by sleepygirl2 on June 23, 2011, at 11:54:05
In reply to Marsha Linehan, posted by Dinah on June 23, 2011, at 8:46:39
Funny, I just read that.
Posted by 10derheart on June 23, 2011, at 19:06:03
In reply to Marsha Linehan, posted by Dinah on June 23, 2011, at 8:46:39
Really interesting. I am sorta surprised she did not share her story earlier in her life/career, but it all just makes her more like others who suffer from the same cluster of symptoms. Shame, fear, they know no boundaries, unfortunately.
Thanks for posting the link - I never would have seen it, not in the NYT. Not my cuppatea, but they do run some excellent articles in some sections, like Health :-)
Posted by emmanuel98 on June 23, 2011, at 19:57:10
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan » Dinah, posted by 10derheart on June 23, 2011, at 19:06:03
I read that this morning and found it interesting. My p-doc insisted, a couple of years ago, that I find a DBT therapist. It wasn't easy. I called almost 50 people. I found a DBT therapist and a DBT group. Recently, I was hospitalized again and my p-doc arranged a meeting with me and the DBT therapist. We agreed that she would be my primary therapist (not my p-doc) and would make a safety contract with her for three months. I am now working on DBT constantly, meditating daily, doing mindfulness exercises, distractions, doing the opposite, everything I can think of to ward off thoughts of suicide. My p-doc told me that he has thought of getting DBT training, but decided not to because he is so old and close to retirement. But he beleives DBT is the only thing that will really save me in the long run. I have tried all kinds of meds, ECT, etc. He feels the medical model is not working for me and I need to get internal control by working on DBT.
My DBT therapist actually studied with Marsha Linehan.
It's surprising how few therapists have studied and can do DBT. When I was calling around, looking for a DBT therapist, most people I spoke to said they didn't think I'd find anyone. A few people I spoke to did DBT but didn't want to work with someone trying to control obsessive suicidal ideation, though that's what DBT was designed to work on.
The DBT group I attend is financed by a grant for victims of trauma and is free. There's a one year waiting list to get in.
Posted by lucielu2 on June 23, 2011, at 21:04:09
In reply to Marsha Linehan, posted by Dinah on June 23, 2011, at 8:46:39
Thanks for posting the article, Dinah. She sounds like a really interesting woman and through her own experience, she's done a lot of good.
Posted by Dinah on June 23, 2011, at 21:11:49
In reply to Marsha Linehan, posted by Dinah on June 23, 2011, at 8:46:39
I don't know why it didn't occur to me before. I spent half her book shouting "That's IT!!!" and was stunned at how well she described phenomenon I'm familiar with, even tho I really don't qualify for the BPD diagnosis.
Yet I've seen her videos and she comes across as so *sensible*. But I suppose I often come across as sensible as well. Well, maybe not. Everyone who meets me seems to know I have an anxiety disorder, but still...
I think it's been mixed blessing and curse to me that my DT (dear therapist) may well be screwed up, but he's screwed up in a totally different way than I am. Bad that he doesn't really understand me and likely never will, but good in that he balances me far better than someone more like me would.
Posted by Dinah on June 23, 2011, at 21:17:11
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan, posted by emmanuel98 on June 23, 2011, at 19:57:10
How is the transfer working for you? I wonder if his feeling close to retirement has anything to do with some of his choices in your therapy?
I called around a while back and discovered the only known DBT group around here was associated with the inpatient ward of a now defunct hospital. But I think my therapist told me about a practice that has opened up specializing in the area.
Do you find it helpful? I find many of the ideas helpful, but I'm not sure how much I'd appreciate a structured program. I tend to be a bit... contrary.
Posted by Willful on June 24, 2011, at 8:14:58
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan, posted by emmanuel98 on June 23, 2011, at 19:57:10
Hey, emmanuel--
I was really touched by your post. It's sad that few people study DBT. It's helped me immeasurably-- and would help more if I only used it more. For me that's always the struggle-- to use what I know (and manage not to know when I need to). I read people here saying they can't find anyone who does DBT-- and I feel lucky that I live in a bit city where there are many therapists of all persuasions. But you did find one! Just making the phone calls is a sign of strong commitment. That's so important for everything else to happen.
I hope things work for you. It sounds as if you're doing everything possible to take a road to a better place. That makes a huge difference.
take care,Willful
Posted by emmanuel98 on June 24, 2011, at 19:28:27
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan, posted by Willful on June 24, 2011, at 8:14:58
Thanks. I was in the hospital for three weeks after an aborted suicide attempt and had bilateral ECT which did nothing but blow holes in my memory. I got to my p-doc's after I left the hospital and heard him on the phone talking about me. He told me he was talking to my DBT therapist and he wanted us all to sit down together. She insisted I make a safety contract with her for three months and contact her, rather than him, if I felt in danger. They both agreed she would be my primary therapist.
At first I was distraught. I am still in love with my p-doc and get upset at the thought of not seeing him. They agreed that I could still see him once a week, since I seemed to need that comfort, but that she would be the person I called if I felt unsafe. Now I see him and he knows exactly what's going on with her. I guess they talk every week.
Which is comforting. That they check in about me. But committing to DBT like this is hard. I have to work at it constantly. I developed this terrible anxiety right after our meeting, which was probably a combination of fearing losing my p-doc and fearing losing the thought of suicide as a way out of pain. I was so anxious I could barely think. I spent hours every day meditating and doing mindfulness exercises.
Now the anxiety has dissipated and I feel better and have to remind myself that I need to keep doing the work while I feel okay, so that I can easily calm myself when I don't feel okay, which is bound to happen.
I feel so lucky to have the help I have. My p-doc says that I am lucky not only that my DBT therapist really seems to know what she is doing and to believe in it, but that she knows me well.
I read about people with bad therapy experiences and feel so lucky to have not one, but two talented and caring therapists.
Posted by emmanuel98 on June 24, 2011, at 19:41:22
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan » emmanuel98, posted by Dinah on June 23, 2011, at 21:17:11
The transfer caused me horrible anxiety. But that's getting better. He and she talk every week and he is still caring and interested in me. I have to get over my dependence on him.
DBT is really intended for people who have constant problems with self-harm and suicidal ideation. My suicidal ideation is horrible and has led me to three very close calls that I pulled myself back from because of guilt over my husband and daughter.
I am unemployed right now for the first time since I was 16 and said to my DBT therapist, I don't know what I'm doing with my life. She said you won't have a life to do anything with if you don't focus on this right now. Right now we are trying to save your life. I have always regarded thoughts of suicide as calming -- a way out. She tells me they are the enemy, not the solution. If I start making plans to suicide, the treatment must end. I must tell her and get myself somewhere safe until I can get control.
My sessions with her are very different from my sessions with my p-doc. It is all about skills -- breathing, regulating myself, mindfulness, radical acceptance.
I made a committment to her for three months and am working at this constantly. I meditate daily, do deep breathing exercises constantly, try to focus myself on being in the moment and being mindful. It's hard work. But it seems to be helping.
> How is the transfer working for you? I wonder if his feeling close to retirement has anything to do with some of his choices in your therapy?
>
> I called around a while back and discovered the only known DBT group around here was associated with the inpatient ward of a now defunct hospital. But I think my therapist told me about a practice that has opened up specializing in the area.
>
> Do you find it helpful? I find many of the ideas helpful, but I'm not sure how much I'd appreciate a structured program. I tend to be a bit... contrary.
Posted by lucielu2 on June 25, 2011, at 14:56:53
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan, posted by emmanuel98 on June 24, 2011, at 19:28:27
Emmanuel, I agree with Willful. Your story is so moving, and your efforts have been nothing short of heroic. You've made such wonderful progress, and it has been anything but easy. I'm glad that your love for your family sustains you and that you have such great therapists. Keep up the great work!
Lucie
Posted by emmanuel98 on June 25, 2011, at 20:26:05
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan » emmanuel98, posted by lucielu2 on June 25, 2011, at 14:56:53
Today I had the worst day I've had in a while. I didn't get out of bed all day. I kept crying and thinking about suicide. I am up now at 9:00 because I finally got hungry but will go back down in a few minutes. I don't know what to do. I am forgetting the DBT. I hope I can sleep tonight and feel better in the morning,
Posted by Dinah on June 25, 2011, at 21:36:17
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan, posted by emmanuel98 on June 25, 2011, at 20:26:05
Can we help?
Posted by Willful on June 26, 2011, at 10:43:37
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan, posted by emmanuel98 on June 25, 2011, at 20:26:05
Hi, emmanuel--
I just posted a response to you and I'm sorry but it seems to have gotten lost-- I'll try to be here later, if I can.
I did wonder if you were able to call your T for coaching and help remembering when you felt you were losing the skills that you needed? That was something that patients of my T were able to do and it was extremely helpful. This is a difficult transition, and it must be extremely stressful just to hang on until you get through it.
I m hoping today is a better day.
Willful
Posted by sigismund on June 26, 2011, at 15:40:40
In reply to Marsha Linehan, posted by Dinah on June 23, 2011, at 8:46:39
"I thought of myself as you."
I understand that. All too well.
How very interesting.
Posted by sigismund on June 26, 2011, at 15:57:56
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan, posted by sigismund on June 26, 2011, at 15:40:40
>"I thought of myself as you."
I sort of assumed that was because there were several of us.
Posted by emmanuel98 on June 26, 2011, at 18:04:11
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan, posted by Willful on June 26, 2011, at 10:43:37
Unfortunately, my T is away and out of touch until Monday. I did call my p-doc just to remind me why I made this contract with my T, to strengthen my resolve to hang in.
I am trying to remember the DBT. Focus on my breath, on the sounds outside my window, the feeling of my feet on the floor.
My husband gets upset when I get so depressed I can't function or get out of bed. I told him I was sorry, since I've been trying so hard not to let this impact him. He said you have a terminal disease and it's not your fault. You don't have to be sorry.
I have to keep reminding myself that I don't want this to be terminal. I am trying to stay alive. >
> I did wonder if you were able to call your T for coaching and help remembering when you felt you were losing the skills that you needed? That was something that patients of my T were able to do and it was extremely helpful. This is a difficult transition, and it must be extremely stressful just to hang on until you get through it.
>
> I m hoping today is a better day.
>
> Willful
>
Posted by Dinah on June 26, 2011, at 22:20:59
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan, posted by emmanuel98 on June 26, 2011, at 18:04:11
Ouch.
Perhaps he meant to say "potentially" and was trying to be understanding?
Keep focusing.
One of the skills I find most helpful had something to do with being curious about the sensations of distress in my body. Where are they? What precisely does it feel like? It gives me a bit of distance from simply feeling it, or being caught up in it.
And strangely enough it sometimes even seems to dissipate the feeling. As if it were physically gathered together and discharged.
I can't recall what terminology she uses.
Posted by emmanuel98 on June 27, 2011, at 20:56:08
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan » emmanuel98, posted by Dinah on June 26, 2011, at 22:20:59
> Ouch.
>
> Perhaps he meant to say "potentially" and was trying to be understanding?Yeah, I'm sure that's what he meant. He was trying to be understanding. It's taken him a long time to come around to the idea that this isn't something I do on purpose and can just snap out of.
>
> Keep focusing.
>
> One of the skills I find most helpful had something to do with being curious about the sensations of distress in my body. Where are they? What precisely does it feel like? It gives me a bit of distance from simply feeling it, or being caught up in it.
>
> And strangely enough it sometimes even seems to dissipate the feeling. As if it were physically gathered together and discharged.
>
> I can't recall what terminology she uses.Yeah, my T says, just sit with the feeling and be curious about it, don't judge it or tell yourself, I can't stand this. She swears this will eventually give you more control over the feeling, but that didn't happen when I was having terrible anxiety and she ended up calling my p-doc and asking him to consider giving me a benzo so I could get some relief. As it turned out, once I got some relief for a few days from the anxiety, my body calmed down and I didn't need the benzo anymore. My p-doc will be happy to hear this.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2011, at 3:41:33
In reply to Re: Marsha Linehan » emmanuel98, posted by Dinah on June 26, 2011, at 22:20:59
I thought so from reading the book. Read something somewhere about her going on a Buddhist retreat... Finding self acceptance... Wanting to put that to psychologists in a language they could understand. Figured from that that the journey was partly personal. She seemed fairly solitary, too. That can be a good way of keeping functioning up. Keeping ones distance.
I'm not surprised she didn't say anything earlier. The last thing you need when you are trying to be taken seriously professionally is to be labelled as crazy. Especially when there is so much judgement and negativity in the professional literature. When those professionals are meant to be the experts. Your superiors. Your colleagues.
People with borderline personality disorder aren't supposed to get better.
I'm glad she did this now. Guess she is moving towards retirement.
It is a very nice gift of a message indeed.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.