Posted by Dr. Bob on July 31, 2010, at 11:48:58
In reply to Re: Changed my mind. No babble mail to you, posted by fayeroe on July 27, 2010, at 11:18:44
> Even someone as "wise and compassionate" as me* was often tempted to rate down people I disagreed with politically, for example. Sometimes, the rating system itself becomes a kind of meta-subject in a thread, to the detriment of the actual subject. But my main concern would be that some people would be better at working the system than others, resulting in an in group & an out group & surely that would be a major problem for a community like Psychobabble, which presents itself as inclusive and supportive. There are lots of examples around the internet of sites dominated by fanboys and fangirls, who create a kind of echo chamber effect that merely amplifies the prevailing belief system of the site, while excluding (either subtly or overtly) other points of view.
>
> chujoeI seem to need to continue to repeat that there wouldn't be a "rate down" option:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/955563.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/955953.htmlThat's a good point, posts about points, like posts about administrative issues, might need to be redirected.
I wonder if the point of view that a point system is a bad idea might be an example of a prevailing belief system amplified by an echo chamber effect. :-)
I'm not sure I'd consider it a problem if someone "worked the system" by helping lots of other posters.
And I don't know if there would be a single out-group. Poster X might not award points to poster Y, but poster Z might.
> > > If someone routinely forgets to "thank" my posts while "thanking" others, I certainly note it and recognize I am unhelpful to that poster and think twice about responding to them.
> >
> > May I ask if you feel hurt by that?
>
> I suppose I do feel hurt. How hurt might depend on context. Or maybe I always feel hurt, and just deny feelings of hurt and defend against them sometimes more than others. May I ask why you ask?Because I thought that if you accepted that you couldn't help everyone, then you might not feel too hurt.
> > I agree, pointing out that someone hasn't been thanked many times might be considered uncivil.
>
> Isn't reporting their rankings of "helpfulness" pointing it out? I consider it to be pointing it out.I don't. IMO, making information available is different than calling attention to it. But that's another good point, it might be important not to make the information too prominent. It wouldn't need to be public which posts were and weren't rewarded with points. And point totals wouldn't need to be in every signature. :-)
> "You aren't on your way to winning a gold star today" can be hurtful. "Johnny has ten gold stars this month and you only have one" can be hurtful.
I agree, those I'd consider calling attention to that information.
> it would feel to me that you were pointing out that you would prefer more helpful people to post here and I ought to leave.
>
> Gold stars can be withheld or granted based more on the feelings of the granter than the behavior of the grantee. The withholding of gold stars can be used as coercion to a sensitive child. Some children might grow to believe that they just aren't capable of gold stars. ... A child can believe they are being helpful, and be simply devastated at the end of they day when they didn't receive a gold star. Standards by other posters are unlikely to be as clearly outlined as a proper behavior modification program should be ... Peers might be more likely to reward those whom they like, those who are popular, those they perceive as powerful (if they wish to curry favor or appease, for example). Being popular and being helpful are not synonymous. I'm not even suggesting any maliciousness of motive. It's a fairly normal thing to reward our friends or people who agree with us.
>
> Are you now saying that you don't consider the act of caring enough to answer supportively helpful enough for this site?
>
> DinahAgain, the idea would be to help people feel good:
> > Getting points would just be a bonus reward, so you feel good about helping others out and you have tangible proof of your helpfulness. You can look at all the points you have and think, wow, I've helped a lot of people! Then you feel good about yourself.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/954811.html
I haven't meant to imply that posters aren't helpful enough or anyone ought to leave. I think the posters here are great! But that's yet another good point, "appreciated" might be better than "helpful". Someone might not appreciate being disagreed with, but hearing a different perspective might actually end up being more helpful.
I understand that, whatever the terminology, some posters might feel bad about their point total. For example, it could trigger old feelings of being unpopular. But some people feel bad about their weight, and the answer isn't not to have scales.
> > If people felt bad about not having many points, maybe others could help them with their answers, or not to feel so bad about it?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100321/msgs/953078.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/956078.htmlThis might also lead to discussion of feeling rejected, unpopular, and envious here. Those are sensitive topics, but talking about them might be productive.
--
> So I remembered that you could use anything I wrote and decided to not babble mail you
>
> fayeroeThat's just posts, not private communications.
Bob
a brilliant and reticent Web mastermind -- The New York Times
backpedals well -- PartlyCloudy
poster:Dr. Bob
thread:952980
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/956562.html