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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by littleone on November 11, 2004, at 15:42:19
I get really obsessed over things, really impulsive too. When I started with my T, I thoroughly Googled him and found out he was the president of a sporting association. They have a website with heaps of pictures on it and I can kind of quietly follow his movements there. He knows this and I guess he's okay with it because he hasn't told me to stop doing it.
But now I'm in big trouble. I was in his waiting room the other day and he took a call from a guy doing some work on my T's house. Normally he'll close his door when he takes a call so people can't hear, but he didn't this time. During the call, he told the workman his home address.
EECK!!
I specifically didn't want to know this because I do find it so hard not to follow things up. I'd rather be left in the dark than have to resist myself.
And idiot me wrote it down. Not that it would matter - it was engraved on my brain as soon as he said it. And I've looked it up in the street directory and know where it is. And I Googled the address and a phone number came up.
DOUBLE EECK!!
And now I know I should throw them out, but I don't think it would help because I know exactly where to look them up on the net again. And I know I should tell my T, but ugh, he'll think I'm stalking him and ugh ugh ugh.
And I know I definately, definately should NOT go around there and I definately, definately should NOT try the phone number, and I won't at the moment. But I go up and down so much and so quickly. If I start feeling really unwell on the weekend, then I might cave in and drive by. Except he lives in a culdesac, so I'd probably draw attention to myself. Except I won't BECAUSE I'M NOT GOING ROUND THERE.
What to do, what to do.
Posted by Bent on November 11, 2004, at 17:18:35
In reply to T's address, posted by littleone on November 11, 2004, at 15:42:19
I hear ya. My T had to call me from home once, so i saw her number on my id, reverse searched it and got her address online, and have driven by her house on purpose, and wonder if I am a total freak for it.
When I break it down I dont think i am a freak. I am human. My T is a wonderful person that has come in to my life but I can never know her personally. I think sometimes I just want to know she is human too or I want to feel a connection to her between weekly appointments. Granted I dont do these *drive-bys* often. I could count the number with one hand. I have hoped that this doesnt make me a stalker, and i dont think it does. I dont ever want to track her down or anything. That's just my experience. I kinda know what you mean. And really, its not all that uncommon.
Posted by daisym on November 11, 2004, at 19:56:22
In reply to T's address, posted by littleone on November 11, 2004, at 15:42:19
I think it is absolutely normal to be interested in all aspects of your therapist. However, I think you should really try to control the impulse to drive by or to call. As much as therapists understand that they loom large for us, they tend to get a bit squirmy when it comes to their personal lives. (though I have to wonder why he wasn't more careful and why his phone number isn't unlisted...)
Don't beat yourself up. Just do the right thing and forget that you know this stuff.
Posted by underthecs on November 11, 2004, at 20:03:20
In reply to T's address, posted by littleone on November 11, 2004, at 15:42:19
I've done the drive-by thing. The guilt was horrible, and I finally confessed. Luckily, he was not bothered by it at all, and understood. And sometimes when I really, really wish he were there, I may do a quick drive-by to sort of get him in me to carry on through the week, if that makes sense. I don't think it's a big deal, if you talk about it with your therapist. Keeping it a "secret" makes it much harder on you than it probably actually is. No, I don't have a solution...just wanted you to hear that I've been there, done that, and survived it.
Posted by Susan47 on November 11, 2004, at 22:11:39
In reply to T's address, posted by littleone on November 11, 2004, at 15:42:19
This is exactly the reason I obsessively phoned my therapist's office number and left countless idiotic messages on his machine, I'm sure even wore out a tape or two, if he used tape. It was a DISTRACTION FROM DOING SOMETHING WORSE. And it worked; it distracted me really well. I was able to take really deep, frightening feelings and pretend they were ending up in the psyche of my therapist, which is where I needed them to be. AND I WAS ABLE TO FOOL MYSELF AND IT WORKED. And I don't know where he lives, what his hobbies are, what his children's names are, what his birthday is, anniversary, hell I don't WANT to know because it's just asking for trouble. SOMETHING happens to some of us in therapy that makes us (please don't take this personally if it offends you) go alittle bit nuts, emotionally. We have a lot of "unmet needs", maybe? That's what my therapist described me as having.
So, my dear girl, where to from here?
Posted by Susan47 on November 11, 2004, at 22:15:59
In reply to Re: T's address » littleone, posted by underthecs on November 11, 2004, at 20:03:20
I stop by my therapist's office during his working hours to, as you so adequately expresssed, "get him in me". Yes, it makes total sense to me. It makes me able to continue in a happy, relaxed fashion, rather than feeling agitated and depressed. I know he understands. And I know, too, that some day I won't need to ever do it anymore, I'll be able to keep myself regulated without any outside influences. Right now, though, I do what I need to do to keep myself afloat, and I don't believe I'm hurting anyone. If I am, I know my ex-therapist would do something about it. I have that confidence in him.
Posted by Aphrodite on November 12, 2004, at 7:46:12
In reply to T's address, posted by littleone on November 11, 2004, at 15:42:19
I completely understand the impulse, but please don't indulge. You'll feel very guilty about it. You want to be connected to him. Is there another way you can do that? Mine often makes relaxation and meditation tapes for me, and when I need to feel close to him, I listen to those. Try to think of another way to channel that impulse that will help you.
Funny thing, my T who is, of course, unlisted like most Ts one day flat out told me where he lived! I had mentioned going to a festival, and he asked if I saw him because he was there and did I see such-and-such booth because that was right in front of his house. I said I didn't remember, and he started describing his house. I guess he trusts me, so I completely put it out of my mind.
Posted by toomuchpain on November 12, 2004, at 8:26:44
In reply to Re: T's address » littleone, posted by Aphrodite on November 12, 2004, at 7:46:12
i totally understand the impulse i have been there ... i got my former t's address from someone who worked there that i knew and i drove by there a few times ... but like everyone else said u should really try to fight the urge to drive by !!!
Posted by underthecs on November 12, 2004, at 18:18:35
In reply to Re: T's address, posted by toomuchpain on November 12, 2004, at 8:26:44
also, let me say that by driving by and TALKING to my therapist about it, the urge has lessened tremendously. trying to ignore it on your own is like telling yourself to STOP thinking about "fill in the blank here." could you discuss it w/your T BEFORE you act, and maybe that will help lessen the urge? I personally do not see what the big deal is... of course it was a big deal until I did it and my T normalized it. Now the urge is less and the guilt and shame are gone.
Posted by 10derheart on November 13, 2004, at 0:55:06
In reply to T's address, posted by littleone on November 11, 2004, at 15:42:19
Littleone,
I think I do understand many of your feelings in this situation. I also think it's unlikely you will *stalk* him, even if you give in to your impulses. Many times with these strong urges, we'll go to a certain point that seems to ease our anxiety, but then we stop. You are not weird or unusual either, at least according to my T.
My story is that earlier this year I did give in to this this impulse and drive by my T's house several times a week. Usually at night, but if I was really agitated, in the day as well. I was always afraid of being seen, but luckily his house was positioned in such a way you could see from a distance what cars were there, if anyone was outside, etc., and turn discreetly around if need be. I think I just wanted to reconnect by seeing his car parked where it was supposed to be. Even the lights in the windows calmed me, knowing he and his wife were likely home together late some nights, which to me meant my world was right and safe, and I could go on another day between sessions. This went on for at least 6 -7 months. It even gets worse. I also used to park across from the clinic where he worked and watch him walk to his car. I did that about 2 times a month for 4-5 months.
I both needed and hated doing this. I loved it because it released tension and allowed peace of mind. It became a ritual that was so comforting. But, I suffered from guilt and confusion, and thought I was almost a stalker, and very weak as I couldn't stop this compulsion.
Eventually, I couldn't stand the feeling I was hiding something really significant we should talk about. I knew I'd never be able to say it without crawling under my T's furniture from humiliation. So, I wrote him a letter and told him exactly what I'd been doing. My T. (former now-he moved away in July :( ) was great about it, and as another poster said, definitely normalized it for me. It ended up being a large weight off my shoulders and in fact, led up to the best session I'd ever had with him, a memory I treasure to this day. It had a lot to do with trusting him with something I'd built up into a huge secret that had me seeing myself as twisted, weird and sicker than I already was, and having him respond with calm understanding.
It was a significant step in our relationship. He even seemed sort of strangely pleased I was needing him a lot and especially that I had told him. I remember him saying that I seemed to be thinkng of my peers (I'm 45, female, single mom) and that since none of them were doing anything like this, that point of view was ending up with me feeling ashamed. Then he paused and said, "But tell me some things a small child might do sometimes when they are worried or afraid?" I told him, cling onto a blanket, suck their thumb, or maybe check on a parents' closeness and try to cling to them. He just smiled at me and told me when you look at it through younger eyes, it's perfectly normal, expected behavior to soothe yourself this way. It was a gentle response that just about erased all my awkwardness, and fear that he wouldn't trust me any more. He also simply didn't make it a big deal of my *confession* at all, which really helped.
After our talk, the impulse to do it was less. I did it a few more times, but the urgency just wasn't there. I guess I could hold the idea of him being there in my mind/heart better without physically checking his house. I think most T's would respond in a similar way, assuming you have a good, open relationship to begin with.
I do agree with everyone who says try to resist, because it can lead to a new problem and a layer of anxiety maybe you'd rather not have to cope with. But, it's clearly a powerful urge for some of us, so you might give in. If you do, please know you're not alone and you probably are acting out of that child's fear and longing for the security and comfort of seeing your T. more often. I'm sure you'll get through it fine, no matter what you do. Please don't be too hard on yourself, in any case. :) 10derheart
Posted by shrinking violet on November 13, 2004, at 11:28:02
In reply to Re: T's address » littleone, posted by Aphrodite on November 12, 2004, at 7:46:12
I can relate as well.
I see my T at the Uni where I am a grad student. When I am on-campus I can easily walk by the building and look in the direction of her window and mentally say 'hi' to her, and usually that's enough. However, I have obtained my T's phone number and address even though both were unlisted.
As for her phone number -- she knows about it, but doesn't know how I actually obtained it. Earlier this year I was strongly urged to go IP for a few days (ED and depression issues). Since it was a 3-day weekend, my T had left her home number with the hospital and agreed to be "on-call" for me if I needed her; we both assumed that I would ask a nurse or someone to call her at home for me, if I needed her. During the intake interview, the doctor copied her number from one sheet to another, and I saw him do it and, since I can read upside down (I was sitting across from him), I memorized it as he wrote it. I feel badly about it now, even though I really couldn't help but see it, but at the time I kept saying her home number over and over to myself and (silly as it might sound) it served as a connection to her and helped with some of my anxiety. A few days later, while IP, I was having a meltdown and repeatedly asked the nurse to call her at home FOR ME. But, the nurse apparently couldn't be bothered, so she wrote my T's number on a piece of paper and HANDED IT TO ME. Eeps. So I called my T and told her and she was very gracious about it, and later said she was glad I called b/c she was worried, etc. But, she thinks I obtained her number from the nurse even though I had gotten it before then. I'm afraid to confess to her. I'm not even sure if she knows I still have/know her number. I'd NEVER use it, however.
As for her address....I have that also. I also recently rented an apartment about a minute by car from my T's house (I needed something closer to school so I woudn't have to commute 35 miles one-way anymore). I drive by her house sometimes, just to make sure everything is ok and quiet. I feel a little guilty only because the area is fairly small and safe (opposite from the city I moved from), and apparently people have no qualms about leaving their blinds or curtains open (and some windows seem to have neither on them) so anyone can look right into their homes as they go by. Granted, I'm always curious to know more about my T, but I feel a little funny about being able to see into her house as I go by.
I don't necessarily feel guilty about knowing where my T lives or with driving by (although a bit guilty with how I came to obtain her address in the first place). Does that make me horrible??? My T is pretty open with me anyway (not that she'd give me her address if I asked!! lol), so maybe that's why I don't feel like I'm intruding on her too much? Besides, the street is public property, and I'm not doing anything wrong by driving by (and at the same time I get to check out my new neighborhood a bit--ok maybe that's a lame excuse). If I were to walk onto her property and snoop around then that would be different but, I dont see anything wrong with driving by once in a while (although given that I'd never tell her about it, maybe that in itself implies there's something wrong with it?). She'll probably drive by my new apartment also -- maybe not purposely, but it's on a main street right near her home with lots of shops, etc, and chances are she'll drive by at some point.
I don't know, maybe I'm grasping at straws. I feel badly for not feeling badly enough, especially given most of you think it's wrong.
:( I'm not sure I could stop doing it though. *sigh*
Sorry little one....I wish I was of more help.
Posted by JenStar on November 13, 2004, at 13:52:31
In reply to am I horrible for *not* feeling guilty for it???, posted by shrinking violet on November 13, 2004, at 11:28:02
hi Violet,
it definitely does NOT make you *horrible!* I don't know what it means, exactly, but NOT horrible. Maybe just: needy, curious, wanting more?I think there is a line between normal curiousity and obsessive following. That line is subjective and a bit different for everyone, but I think most people would agree that you're on the "normal" side.
I don't think there's one of us who haven't -- at SOME point in life (high school? college?) tracked down a crush or a professor or an acquaintance, eager to understand how they live, hoping to learn more about them. Many people buy maps to the stars' houses in Hollywood...and we LOVE reality shows!.. which give us insight into the secret lives of other people. (There was even a Seinfeld episode where Jerry got a woman's unlisted # off an AIDS benefit charity donation list, or something like that!)
I think it's OK to find out some basic details about your T. These details might help ground your understanding.
I think it WOULD become obsessive if you DID start wandering around the property, or following her in her car, or sneaking up & eavesdropping on conversations, or parking/watching like a paparazzi, etc. That would be kind of scary, because it would indicate an unhealthy obsession and ultimately would hurt YOUR life - you'd be spending too much time thinking about her, and not enough about you.
But it sounds to me that you're only doing the normal curious "human" kind of snooping.
Anyway, I don't think you should beat yourself up about not beating yourself up. :) My advice would be: Just accept that you're a moderately curious person, you learned something about how she lives, and you're OK with that.
take care!
JenStar
Posted by 10derheart on November 13, 2004, at 14:39:05
In reply to am I horrible for *not* feeling guilty for it???, posted by shrinking violet on November 13, 2004, at 11:28:02
Posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 14:59:33
In reply to Re: T's address, posted by toomuchpain on November 12, 2004, at 8:26:44
I think I want to clarify that I don't think there is anything "bad" or "wrong" about the urge to know more about your therapist...to drive by, have their home number, google them, find out what their spouse looks like, etc. In any intimate relationship there is a need to know. And, I think, in some ways to balance things. Is there any other relationship that you have that is so one sided?
I think I was cautioning to curb the urge because I've heard horror stories (here and other places) where therapist were not understanding at all about these urges. They reacted badly and it really changed the nature of the relationship.
The other reason is that the reality you discover might not fit with what you see in the consulting room. I think it was someone on this board who saw their therapist have a hissy about getting cut off while driving. Not exacty the calm, "I can handle anything" person we would expect. This is why the blank slate idea for therapist has been around for a long time. I have been very tentatively started working on anger...I don't "do" anger very well. First I asked my therapist what he looked like angry, did he yell? He told me he has been known to raise his voice but not very often. Does he curse? Throw things? (I had a lot of questions!) That was a few weeks ago. This week I told him that if he got mad, I didn't think I could handle it if he yelled at me. He said he knew that, so he wouldn't. But I said I already knew that he "might". He said maybe he shouldn't have told me that then...
The more we know, the more we have to work through.
Posted by shrinking violet on November 13, 2004, at 17:54:43
In reply to Re: am I horrible for *not* feeling guilty for it??? » shrinking violet, posted by JenStar on November 13, 2004, at 13:52:31
So I'm a *little* horrible? ;)
I agree that for some people it might become an obsession (I agree that following a T around town is over-the-top), but I don't think it's that way for me (I hope not!). Actually, I think if I ever actually saw my T on her property or on her deck, etc as I drove by, it might be too weird. I just like seeing her house and the beautiful farm she lives next to. My T probably means more to me than she should in a personal way, and it's hard during the week not being able to walk into her office and sit down and spend time with her whenever I feel like it (and I haven't seen her at all in the past 4-6 weeks b/c I reacted to a bad session by quitting, although I am seeing her again this coming week), but I think I'd know when I crossed the line (or at least I hope I would....I'm afraid I wouldn't).
I still feel a little weird about it now, maybe because I shared something so private and meaningful to me? :-/ Hm, I'll probably think a lot more before I drive by her house again. *sigh*
Thanks Jen & 10derheart.
> hi Violet,
> it definitely does NOT make you *horrible!* I don't know what it means, exactly, but NOT horrible. Maybe just: needy, curious, wanting more?
>
> I think there is a line between normal curiousity and obsessive following. That line is subjective and a bit different for everyone, but I think most people would agree that you're on the "normal" side.
>
> I don't think there's one of us who haven't -- at SOME point in life (high school? college?) tracked down a crush or a professor or an acquaintance, eager to understand how they live, hoping to learn more about them. Many people buy maps to the stars' houses in Hollywood...and we LOVE reality shows!.. which give us insight into the secret lives of other people. (There was even a Seinfeld episode where Jerry got a woman's unlisted # off an AIDS benefit charity donation list, or something like that!)
>
> I think it's OK to find out some basic details about your T. These details might help ground your understanding.
>
> I think it WOULD become obsessive if you DID start wandering around the property, or following her in her car, or sneaking up & eavesdropping on conversations, or parking/watching like a paparazzi, etc. That would be kind of scary, because it would indicate an unhealthy obsession and ultimately would hurt YOUR life - you'd be spending too much time thinking about her, and not enough about you.
>
> But it sounds to me that you're only doing the normal curious "human" kind of snooping.
>
> Anyway, I don't think you should beat yourself up about not beating yourself up. :) My advice would be: Just accept that you're a moderately curious person, you learned something about how she lives, and you're OK with that.
>
> take care!
> JenStar
>
>
>
>
Posted by JenStar on November 13, 2004, at 21:49:06
In reply to Re: am I horrible for *not* feeling guilty for it??? » JenStar, posted by shrinking violet on November 13, 2004, at 17:54:43
gosh, no, you're not horrible at all! I wasn't trying to qualify you with ANY kind of *horrible*. :)
I'm glad you shared this post. Seriously, I think all of us have done a bit of harmless digging to learn more about someone interesting. The things you describe don't sound horrible, just like you're interested.
hope you're having a good evening...
JenStar
Posted by littleone on November 16, 2004, at 15:43:19
In reply to T's address, posted by littleone on November 11, 2004, at 15:42:19
Thank you all for your responses. Muchly appreciated.
I kind of started to fix the problem on the weekend by relegating his address and phone number to the monster box. And it's almost in there by now. Just one little corner sticking out and tempting me.
But he went and screwed that all up yesterday.
He was talking about emotional connection between him and me and how it needs to happen, but it's not something you can make happen. You just let it come naturally.
Ha! If it was that simple I wouldn't need therapy in the first place!
He was saying how I was becoming emotionally connected earlier in the piece when I put his photos in my journal and on my computer monitor at work.
Except he doesn't realise that was only the tip of the iceberg. I was totally obsessed with him. I know that's a pretty normal reaction in therapy, but I don't really see that as an "emotional connection". It's more like emotional suffocation. To me a connection is meeting half way.
When I write to him this week, I'll tell him this and I'll probably tell him I have his address and that I'm worried about letting that obsession thing out of the monster box again. But blah. I hate letting things out of that box. Other yucky slimy things try to slip out at the same time.
I'm good at putting things in the monster box. Not so good at getting them out again.
Posted by Susan47 on November 22, 2004, at 1:01:36
In reply to Re: T's address, posted by littleone on November 16, 2004, at 15:43:19
Honey, I kind of wish I didn't know what you are talking about, but I really do. Telling him you know his address and how obsessed you feel about him is going to be risky, but it might be a risk you have to take. I wish I could make all this go away for you. (((littleone)))
This is the end of the thread.
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