![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shrinking violet on October 27, 2004, at 14:20:36
my t sent me a card. i got it today. i quit with her two weeks ago, but she thought i would reschedule at some point. i sent her an email last week making it more final.
i have so many regrets with her, namely i regret that our last session was our last session---it wasnt the way i would have wanted to end with her. she sort of left it open...for me to schedule if i think counseling can help me with anything....but i know i can't. i hate that this is so hard. it seems to get harder instead of easier, why is that?
in my last email to her, i basically took the blame for everything. i let her know that the reason i was leaving was for HER, not for me, because i thought it would be best for her. i told her i'd miss her and think of her, blah blah. i'm such an idiot.
i hate that i screw everything up. why is that? if i could have just talked to her, things would have been very different.
ironically i have an appt with my nutritionist tomorrow. i quit with her earlier this year after i figured i was wasting her time since i never did anything she told me to. last week i emailed her to reschedule...i think i'm partly making sure someone is there since my t no longer is. and i really like my n (and she knows my t very well, they work at the same uni and see each other). but, she isn't my t. kind of stupid i'm seeing her b/c right now i never want to eat again. i hope she's ready....i think i'm going to be a mess tomorrow. :(
why is this so hard???
Posted by Annierose on October 27, 2004, at 18:20:58
In reply to she sent me a card :-(, posted by shrinking violet on October 27, 2004, at 14:20:36
SV - I'm glad your T sent you a card. Do you feel like sharing what she said? It is very difficult (and brave) to leave a supportive environment (or as supportive as she was able to be). It's a hard decision. I am the poster that did quit with her T 15 years ago, and just started up with her again :) I do not regret my decision to quit back then. We have both grown and learned more about ourselves. I do so understand what you are going through. I often thought I needed a new T to get over my first T.
But in time, that pain does lessen and eventually go away. If you do decide to see her again, try to tell her what you have been posting here. You have nothing to lose. I'm sure that card brought a huge smile to your day. -Annie
Posted by Rigby on October 27, 2004, at 19:42:13
In reply to she sent me a card :-(, posted by shrinking violet on October 27, 2004, at 14:20:36
Hi SV,
She said to consider counseling again if you think it can help you. Do you possibly feel like you can't because of pride? I think if you *feel* like you want/need to go back, then go back.
Leaving is *very* hard. But sometimes the process of leaving is important. I've quit therapy a few times and each time has been really important--I've learned alot from the process of ripping away an attachment. I went back a few times--and that was important too.
Someone once said to me that you "just know" when you're done with therapy. You just know it. It sounds like maybe you aren't done but are possibly inflicting some pain on yourself?
Anyway, I'm sorry if any of this is off--I wanted to respond though as I bet you are really sad.
Please keep writing, okay?
> my t sent me a card. i got it today. i quit with her two weeks ago, but she thought i would reschedule at some point. i sent her an email last week making it more final.
>
> i have so many regrets with her, namely i regret that our last session was our last session---it wasnt the way i would have wanted to end with her. she sort of left it open...for me to schedule if i think counseling can help me with anything....but i know i can't. i hate that this is so hard. it seems to get harder instead of easier, why is that?
>
> in my last email to her, i basically took the blame for everything. i let her know that the reason i was leaving was for HER, not for me, because i thought it would be best for her. i told her i'd miss her and think of her, blah blah. i'm such an idiot.
>
> i hate that i screw everything up. why is that? if i could have just talked to her, things would have been very different.
>
> ironically i have an appt with my nutritionist tomorrow. i quit with her earlier this year after i figured i was wasting her time since i never did anything she told me to. last week i emailed her to reschedule...i think i'm partly making sure someone is there since my t no longer is. and i really like my n (and she knows my t very well, they work at the same uni and see each other). but, she isn't my t. kind of stupid i'm seeing her b/c right now i never want to eat again. i hope she's ready....i think i'm going to be a mess tomorrow. :(
>
> why is this so hard???
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by shrinking violet on October 27, 2004, at 21:19:04
In reply to Re: she sent me a card :-( » shrinking violet, posted by Annierose on October 27, 2004, at 18:20:58
>> SV - I'm glad your T sent you a card. Do you feel like sharing what she said?
Sure, why not. I have nothing more to lose. ;) I'll put it in a seperate response, though, along with what I sent to her, because it's a bit long. Thanks for asking.
>>It is very difficult (and brave) to leave a supportive environment (or as supportive as she was able to be).
Difficult, yes. Brave? I don't know, maybe for some. For me I think it's just plain stupidity.
>>...in time, that pain does lessen and eventually go away. If you do decide to see her again, try to tell her what you have been posting here. You have nothing to lose. I'm sure that card brought a huge smile to your day.Thank you, I hope it gets easier. The thought behind the card was nice, yes. I guess I was a bit disappointed at what she said, especially given what I had written to her, but, I know she knows I tend to read a lot into things so maybe she wanted to make sure I couldn't miscontstrue anything else and then not be able to ask her about it. Or maybe (most likely) she's thrilled to be rid of me and wanted to make it short and sweet. I don't know....*sigh* all it did was make me cry and make it worse, actually.
Thanks for responding. :)
Posted by shrinking violet on October 27, 2004, at 21:25:28
In reply to Re: she sent me a card :-(, posted by Rigby on October 27, 2004, at 19:42:13
>> She said to consider counseling again if you think it can help you. Do you possibly feel like you can't because of pride? I think if you *feel* like you want/need to go back, then go back.
Yes, partly. I've quit and gone back a number of times before. I feel like I can't/shouldn't do it again. And, mainly, I think it's best for her if I stay away.
>> Leaving is *very* hard. But sometimes the process of leaving is important. I've quit therapy a few times and each time has been really important--I've learned alot from the process of ripping away an attachment. I went back a few times--and that was important too.Yeah, well, I've gone through this "ripping away" with various people...Is it too much to ask to have ONE person see it through with me? And I cant blame her b/c I left first, but, I was mainly reacting to her frustration.
>> Someone once said to me that you "just know" when you're done with therapy. You just know it. It sounds like maybe you aren't done but are possibly inflicting some pain on yourself?Hm, no, I don't even think I really started. My T and I didn't "do" much therapy...or at least it didn't feel like it. I didn't say much, so, it made it hard. I probably am hurting myself (I'm good at that, at least). I'm such an idiot too...if I had just responded TO HER IN SESSION to the stuff she said, instead of having these latent reactions, this could have been avoided. I always do that...I always get hurt or angry or upset at something that happened during session *after* session, and then I usually lash out at her in email, or I quit with her...*sigh* I'm so unbelievably sick of myself.
>> Anyway, I'm sorry if any of this is off--I wanted to respond though as I bet you are really sad.No you had some good points to make, thank you. And, I appreciate the thought....I am really sad.
Thank you.
SV
Posted by Annierose on October 27, 2004, at 22:13:32
In reply to Re: she sent me a card :-( » Annierose, posted by shrinking violet on October 27, 2004, at 21:19:04
Hi SV - Thanks for the response. I know you are hurting. I think I remember that you are a unversity student. Something struck me reading your response to rigby, about the difficulty you had in communicating to her. Who knows what road you'll take in the coming year or two. But if you ever have the desire or opportunity to see a T twice a week, I think it might help you open up more. You seem to regret not opening up during the session. The more often you dig away at that place, the more likely it is to stay open. Just a thought.
Posted by fallsfall on October 28, 2004, at 11:14:42
In reply to Re: she sent me a card :-( » Rigby, posted by shrinking violet on October 27, 2004, at 21:25:28
>...Or maybe (most likely) she's thrilled to be rid of me and wanted to make it short and sweet.
*** Many, many, many people write on this board that they think that their therapists will be happier if they leave. Why wouldn't they be happier - we are (by definition) a bunch of "problem children"? But over and over again, if the patient is able to talk this through with their therapist, they seem to find that the therapist *doesn't* want them to "just go away". The therapist may well be frustrated, because their normal ways of doing things don't seem to be helping - but that doesn't mean that they want us to leave. Maybe you and your therapist are the exception - maybe she does want you to leave, but somehow, I doubt it. Can you see yourself as a "challenge" instead of a "problem"?
>...And, mainly, I think it's best for her if I stay away.
>
*** Your therapy isn't about what is best for her. It is about what is best for you. First of all, she can take care of herself. Therapists are trained to keep an eye on themselves, and to ask for advice (supervision) if they are getting into a difficult position. It is *her* responsibility and *her supervisor's* responsibility to decide if she is in a position that is harmful to her. She has a number of options if she decides that she does need to do something to take care of herself: Talk to her supervisor, talk to her peers, consult with your pdoc (do you have one?), ask you to go for a consultation with another therapist (this can give her a clearer picture of where you are, or an independent assessment of what your issues are), terminate you. She does have options. None of those include hoping that the patient will quit.*** Second, you really *don't know* what is best for her. You have made assumptions about how she is feeling about you and your therapy, and assumptions about what those feelings mean to her. I have had lots (and lots) of experince believing that I knew exactly what my therapist was feeling, but when I actually asked about it, I would find that my interpretation really *was wrong*. I do not believe that my therapists were lying about how they were feeling. I do believe that I interpretted their signals according to my own biases - rather than finding out from them what the actual situation was. Plus, she may experience particular emotions differently from you. The classic example for this is frustration. Frustration can be... well, frustrating. But all frustration is not bad. Sometimes it is what pushes us to reach beyond our current situation or skill set. Frustration is what allows us to keep trying until we succeed. Watch a baby who is just learning how to crawl or walk - they are incredibly frustrated! But the solution isn't to carry them to where they want to be - the solution is to let them learn how to get there.
>
>Yeah, well, I've gone through this "ripping away" with various people...Is it too much to ask to have ONE person see it through with me? And I cant blame her b/c I left first, but, I was mainly reacting to her frustration.*** It sounds to me like she *is* willing to see it through with you - if you will let her.
>
>
>I'm such an idiot too...if I had just responded TO HER IN SESSION to the stuff she said, instead of having these latent reactions, this could have been avoided. I always do that...I always get hurt or angry or upset at something that happened during session *after* session, and then I usually lash out at her in email, or I quit with her...*sigh**** In the process of learning, we often go through a number of stages.
1. Believing the way we do things now is good.
2. Understanding that a change might make things better.
3. Realizing that we should have done something differently - identifying places where we could have made the change.
4. Recognizing *while* we are doing something that we really should be doing it a different way (but not being able to make the change at that point - i.e. it is too late)
5. Starting to do it the old way, but recognizing that we want to do it differently and being able to start making the change.
6. Getting ready to do it the old way, but doing it the new way instead.
7. Doing it the new way.*** These kinds of changes are non-trivial. I have spent *years* leaving a therapy session and figuring out 1 hour or 1 day or 1 week later what was happening. But I *am* getting (slowly) better at catching these things sooner. You are not a failure for not being able to respond immediately in the session - you are simply still learning.
>I'm so unbelievably sick of myself.
*** Well, the rest of us aren't sick of you.
>
*** You seem to be expecting a lot of yourself. Therapy is HARD. Talking and trusting is HARD. And there is no schedule that says when we should be able to get to certain places in therapy - it all depends on who you are, what has happened in your life so far, and who your therapist is.*** If you said "I quit because therapy wasn't helping me" or "I quit because I have other things to do with my time" or "I quit because my therapist and I don't *fit* right", then I might say "OK". But it concerns me that you have quit because you don't think it is good for *her* for you to stay.
Posted by sunny10 on October 28, 2004, at 15:33:09
In reply to Re: she sent me a card :-( » Rigby, posted by shrinking violet on October 27, 2004, at 21:25:28
SV- you said
"Hm, no, I don't even think I really started. My T and I didn't "do" much therapy...or at least it didn't feel like it. I didn't say much, so, it made it hard. I probably am hurting myself (I'm good at that, at least). I'm such an idiot too...if I had just responded TO HER IN SESSION to the stuff she said, instead of having these latent reactions, this could have been avoided. I always do that...I always get hurt or angry or upset at something that happened during session *after* session, and then I usually lash out at her in email, or I quit with her...*sigh* I'm so unbelievably sick of myself. "I'm wondering if you have a fear of confrontation which is making all of your interactions difficult. (You mentioned that you'd "quit" a nutritionist, too, I think?)
I have this, too, and "not much therapy got done" is a statement that I can make, too.
I'm wondering whether we can suggest therapy IM sessions... we seem to be better at typing our feelings, with no one's face reacting to what we say....True that it wouldn't "cure us" of these insecurities and fears, but it might help get us started until face to face was possible, thus helpful to a "cure".
Gargenergirl, what do you think about that idea? You think insurance companies would ever go for IM sessions???
-Sunny10
Posted by shrinking violet on October 28, 2004, at 18:28:22
In reply to Re: she sent me a card :-(, posted by Annierose on October 27, 2004, at 22:13:32
Hi, thanks for your thoughts :)
Actually, my T had suggested I see her twice a week to see if that would help open me up more. We tried it for a few weeks, but it didn't seem to help much, and we somehow just stopped and went back to once a week (without really discussing it, now that I'm thinking of it). So, yeah, in theory it might help, but for me it didn't. :(
Thanks again, I appreciate the suggestion.
SV>> Hi SV - Thanks for the response. I know you are hurting. I think I remember that you are a unversity student. Something struck me reading your response to rigby, about the difficulty you had in communicating to her. Who knows what road you'll take in the coming year or two. But if you ever have the desire or opportunity to see a T twice a week, I think it might help you open up more. You seem to regret not opening up during the session. The more often you dig away at that place, the more likely it is to stay open. Just a thought.
Posted by shrinking violet on October 28, 2004, at 18:38:56
In reply to Re: she sent me a card :-( » shrinking violet, posted by fallsfall on October 28, 2004, at 11:14:42
Wow, (((Fallsfall))) I am so touched by your taking the time to write all of this, thank you. It helped immensely....I'm actually thinking of giving her another chance. ;)
>> *** Many, many, many people write on this board that they think that their therapists will be happier if they leave.... The therapist may well be frustrated, because their normal ways of doing things don't seem to be helping - but that doesn't mean that they want us to leave. Maybe you and your therapist are the exception - maybe she does want you to leave, but somehow, I doubt it. Can you see yourself as a "challenge" instead of a "problem"?I hope you're right, I really do. I hate being a challenge, though. To me, I was a challenge at first but then moved into being a problem, somehow. And it's worse b/c I honestly DO NOT want to be that way. I'm just not sure how to get myself to be different.
>> *** Your therapy isn't about what is best for her. It is about what is best for you.
I'm going to try to keep repeating that to myself; maybe eventually I'll believe it.
>> *** Second, you really *don't know* what is best for her. You have made assumptions about how she is feeling about you and your therapy, and assumptions about what those feelings mean to her.Yep, I do do that a lot. My T has often asked me to NOT assume that I know what she's feeling or thinking. But, to me, it makes sense....I'm frustrating her or angering her or making her feel such-and-such, so the solution is to remove me from the equation. I'm going to try to stop doing that, though, and at least try to ask her first (if I end up seeing her again). Thank you.
>> *** It sounds to me like she *is* willing to see it through with you - if you will let her.She's said this to me a dozen times, that she's "hanging-in there" with me, and willing to do so, etc. She hasn't shown me any different, yet somehow I think it isn't true. Hm.
>> *** These kinds of changes are non-trivial. I have spent *years* leaving a therapy session and figuring out 1 hour or 1 day or 1 week later what was happening. But I *am* getting (slowly) better at catching these things sooner. You are not a failure for not being able to respond immediately in the session - you are simply still learning.
Thank you, that was very helpful (especially the list!). The problem is, I think, that my non-responsiveness in session is making things harder, b/c I'll react without thinking (like quitting, or lashing out at her), instead of talking to her about it first.
>> *** You seem to be expecting a lot of yourself. Therapy is HARD. Talking and trusting is HARD. And there is no schedule that says when we should be able to get to certain places in therapy - it all depends on who you are, what has happened in your life so far, and who your therapist is.
Thank you. :) I guess I'm just frustrated because it's been over a year now and I still can't talk, I still react in an immature way to things that do happen, I still can't engage with her, I still get defensive, I still can't even look at her, etc. And I'm not sure WHY I'm even that way...and it isn't just with her, it's with most people, especially people who I feel have some sort of authority or who are trying to "see into" me or get something from me (like doctors, etc). And I want to fix it, I just don't know how or why it even happens, and then they (like my T, and even my doc) get frustrated and assume I don't want help, or that I'm angry with them, or that I'm mocking them, or that I'm doing it on purpose, etc. when it isn't that way AT ALL.
>> *** If you said "I quit because therapy wasn't helping me" or "I quit because I have other things to do with my time" or "I quit because my therapist and I don't *fit* right", then I might say "OK". But it concerns me that you have quit because you don't think it is good for *her* for you to stay.
True, you're right.
You've given me a LOT to think about, thank you SO MUCH.
-SV
Posted by shrinking violet on October 28, 2004, at 18:54:38
In reply to she sent me a card :-(, posted by shrinking violet on October 27, 2004, at 14:20:36
Thanks to the responders here, I've been reconsidering my (rather rash) decision to quit (again).
Here's my thoughts:
A) I may call and make an appt and NOT email her ahead of time and ask her. When she finds out, if she doesnt want to see me, she can let me know, but otherwise i'm just going to call and set up a time and show up, which is nothing like me....Usually I'll email her and ask her if she can take me back.B) I'm going to go in and tell her specifically why I'm there: that I need help with some specific issues that are happening now (one is I'm moving), and also that I didnt like the way things ended with her and the way I handled everything, and wanted to try to change it. As far as all the other issues, I'll bring them up if/when I feel comfortable, otherwise I dont want her trying to pull anything out of me (which tends to shut me down more anyway).
Also I'm going to bring a list of "rules" that I'd like for us. Here's a few of what I came up with so far:
1. If i'm having trouble talking, I dont want her to assume i'm getting angry and start reacting to that. Also, I want her to just try to sit there and not talk for a few minutes to see if I can get out of it on my own.
2. If i bring in anything written, I have to read it aloud to her in session, rather than her grabbing it from me and reading it herself. Even if it takes me a while to get through it, I need her to just let me try to do this in my way and at my pace.
3. Absolutely NO talking of our "relationship" or how much she "cares," etc, b/c it's too confusing and I think I'm reading too much meaning into it and in the end it's just confusing and upsetting. I'll tell her that I know she cares for me as a client, and I appreciate it, but I think that's all it is and whether or not she is trying to, she makes it seem like it's more than that, and when I realize it isnt, it's just more hurtful than helpful.
4. If it's ok with her an she's willing, I want to learn some meditation/mindfulness/spiritual techniques which she had offered before but I never really answered her (she is a Buddhist and she offered to help teach me some techniques that may help with anxiety).
5. I dont want to get angry or react as the way I had been doing with her. I will promise I'll try to react to something *in session* or, if I end up having a latent reaction, I'm going to try to hold onto it until the next week and talk TO her about it, rather than throwing something at her from email.
I'll probably add to and edit the list as I go along...Can anyone think of anything I may be forgetting (from reading my posts, some of you may have a better idea than I do of what I should try to do to take control of and improve this situation a bit)?
Of course, I have no idea whether I can even go in there and "take charge" like that... Doing it in my head is one thing, actually doing it while sitting in front of her is something else.
And I do feel somewhat stupid going back AGAIN. Part of me thinks she knows I will, though. :-/ Hm, maybe I *should* as her first before I reschedule...Would it be presumptuous of me to assume she'd see me? I'm not sure...*sigh*
I hope I make the right decision, whatever that is.
Thanks everyone for all of the support and thoughts, I appreciate it. Especially now, when I feel like I'm whining about nothing while the rest of you have legitimate issues to post on and I feel I can't even respond to most of them because I'm never quite sure what to say. So, I'm sorry for that.
Thanks,
-SV
Posted by shrinking violet on October 28, 2004, at 19:01:07
In reply to Re: she sent me a card :-( SV and gardenergirl, posted by sunny10 on October 28, 2004, at 15:33:09
>> I'm wondering if you have a fear of confrontation which is making all of your interactions difficult.
Wow, that's quite possible. I think in my case too, when I was a child, I was never acknowledged when I tried to verbalize something (unless it was someone pushing me off, or telling me to shut up). When I started writing my mother notes and leaving them around, I'd get a much more positive reaction. So, yeah, I do think I am very insecure when it comes to facing people and "confronting" them in whatever way. I also become physically uncomfortable, where I'll avert eye contact, not say much at all, and sometimes become defensive. This reaction, of course, makes the other person react, and not in a very positive way either since they don't know why I do it or that I can't really control it.
>> I'm wondering whether we can suggest therapy IM sessions... we seem to be better at typing our feelings, with no one's face reacting to what we say....True that it wouldn't "cure us" of these insecurities and fears, but it might help get us started until face to face was possible, thus helpful to a "cure".You know, I've actually thought of that. My T woudn't go for it, though, she's very much a face-to-face therapist (hm, aren't they all? lol). Although, she did at one time suggest that I go to her computer and type something to her and then let her read it, if I was having trouble saying it to her. I never did it, though...It felt too weird just doing it when she's right there in the room with me!
---> SV- you said
---> "Hm, no, I don't even think I really started. My T and I didn't "do" much therapy...or at least it didn't feel like it. I didn't say much, so, it made it hard. I probably am hurting myself (I'm good at that, at least). I'm such an idiot too...if I had just responded TO HER IN SESSION to the stuff she said, instead of having these latent reactions, this could have been avoided. I always do that...I always get hurt or angry or upset at something that happened during session *after* session, and then I usually lash out at her in email, or I quit with her...*sigh* I'm so unbelievably sick of myself. "
Posted by gardenergirl on October 28, 2004, at 19:46:10
In reply to maybe I'll go back.....but with conditions, posted by shrinking violet on October 28, 2004, at 18:54:38
Hi SV,
These sound like good steps. I wish you luck if you decide to do it. I hope it leads to feeling better about therapy and feeling better overall.As far as IMing therapy...well, I personally would have a hard time with it, as it does take a great deal of data (the nonverbal, and the feeling of connection) out of the equation. I think I would be tempted to say find an e-therapist--somebody who is skilled and experienced in this type of communication. I think it would be too hard with a current T.
Good luck!
gg
Posted by Poet on October 29, 2004, at 11:45:54
In reply to maybe I'll go back.....but with conditions, posted by shrinking violet on October 28, 2004, at 18:54:38
Hi SV,
I don't think it's presumptuous of you to assume that she'll want to see you. I think that by making an appointment, not emailing her about it first, will show her that you realize you need to come back, but this time around it will be different.
I like your conditions. Therapist's always say that we are in charge, right? You have taken charge.
I think she'll be more than happy to help you learn to meditate and learn mindfulness. I do guided imagery in therapy. I think it's a very non-threatening way to lead me to talk about the stuff that is so hard to tell her directly.
My therapist keeps telling me she cares about me even though I told her not to say it. She says that I need to accept it and that I can't control her feelings. I suspect yours will say something similiar. I gave up telling her not to say it, now I just glare at her. She glares back.
Maybe you can read her your conditions? If she tries to grab the paper, look at her and say *rule number 2, if I bring in something to read, I read it outloud to you.*
I think they are reasonable and clearly should show her that this is what you think will help you to benefit from therapy.
Good luck. I went back with your help, if I can help you in any other way, let me know.
Poet
Posted by shrinking violet on October 29, 2004, at 17:19:42
In reply to Re: maybe I'll go back.....but with conditions » shrinking violet, posted by Poet on October 29, 2004, at 11:45:54
Thank you, Poet. I appreciate your support very much.
>> I don't think it's presumptuous of you to assume that she'll want to see you. I think that by making an appointment, not emailing her about it first, will show her that you realize you need to come back, but this time around it will be different.
-- Well, I sort of broke one of my own rules already. I did mail her (by postal mail) a small card I made on my computer. Inside, I wrote the following:
"Dear [name],
Thank you for your card…it was very thoughtful of you.
I just wanted to say that I have been thinking a lot about how I handled things (recently and in the past), and what I could have done differently, and what –specifically—I may want/need from therapy.
I feel I should tell you in advance that I am considering scheduling an appointment; I have a few things I need to say, and have come up with some specific issues I would like help with, as well as some ideas as to how to make things easier for both of us. I am letting you know this in order to give you the opportunity to refuse to see me, if that is what you might prefer. I am humbly asking for another chance to turn things around -- unfortunately, I cannot guarantee it will go the way I ultimately want, although I will try harder than I ever have -- so I would completely understand if you feel otherwise.
If I don’t hear from you or the office, I will gratefully assume that you will be open to seeing me at least once more, and I will call to make an appointment within the next 2-3 weeks, if I do decide it would be beneficial to do so.
Thank you.."-- I tried to do it the way I said I would, but, I re-read the card she sent me and I realize that it does sound pretty final (although she could have been responding to the email I sent when I asked to quit, which sounded very final as well). I keep thinking of course she's thrilled and relieved to be rid of me and her workdays must be so much easier and lighter now that I'm not her client. And, after all of the crap I give her, the least I could do is give her the opportunity to refuse to see me, instead of my just showing up. Not to mention feeling like a world-class idiot for quitting and asking to go back for the umpteenth time. None of those other times ended up being different, so why would she (or even I for that matter) think *this* time will be better? So, we'll see. Right now I'm convinced she'll politely say that we've done all we can, blah blah, and I'll be crushed beyond belief. We'll see.
>> I like your conditions. Therapist's always say that we are in charge, right? You have taken charge.-- Thanks, it feels better this way. Although, I'm not sure she'll be able to hand over control so easily. I think she's fallen into a habit with me of taking over sessions (and her personality is very much "hands on"), so it might be hard at first, but I want to try to turn this around. I don't want to regret how things ended with her forever, you know? If I can do something to try to change things and make this into a good experience in SOME way before I graduate, then it would be worth it. I just hope she feels the same.
>> I think she'll be more than happy to help you learn to meditate and learn mindfulness. I do guided imagery in therapy. I think it's a very non-threatening way to lead me to talk about the stuff that is so hard to tell her directly.-- I think she will too. I just have to get over the self-consciousness (I always feel so silly doing things like that...).
>> My therapist keeps telling me she cares about me even though I told her not to say it. She says that I need to accept it and that I can't control her feelings. I suspect yours will say something similiar. I gave up telling her not to say it, now I just glare at her. She glares back.-- Perhaps. I just at least need to let her know that it confuses me. For some reason she also seems to have this NEED to know that she cares and for me to admit that I know she cares. We've never really talked about it in any event....we've always sort of danced around it, like mostly everything else...so maybe by my bringing it up we'll be able to sort of figure it out and maybe it'll become easier for me to accept and understand.
>> Maybe you can read her your conditions? If she tries to grab the paper, look at her and say *rule number 2, if I bring in something to read, I read it outloud to you.*-- LOL That's cute, and you're right, I would need to refer back to the rule! I had planned to march in, sit down, and start reading off (not solely read, but use it as more of a guide). That way, she'll definitely know this time I mean business because I've never done that before! And I think it'll be VERY hard for her to sit there and let me read off without her knowing what's on the page. So, it'll be interesting if I can pull this off.
>> I think they are reasonable and clearly should show her that this is what you think will help you to benefit from therapy.--Thanks, I hope so. I've written to her suggestions in the past. She's read them, but never really listened or applied them in any way. Maybe my saying them will give them more weight. I think she's stopped hearing my words in writing ( I've given her so much, I think they've lost any impact they once had), so hopefully my saying these things will get through to her more effectively.
IF she agrees to see me, that is.
I hope I'm not making a mistake...
Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate themSV
Posted by Daisym on October 29, 2004, at 18:35:36
In reply to Re: maybe I'll go back.....but with conditions » Poet, posted by shrinking violet on October 29, 2004, at 17:19:42
sv,
I'm glad you want to go back and work things out. I have to tell you that my therapist would never allow a list of rules. He is incredibly easy going but when I started I would ask him about this or that and he would simply say, "that's not how I work." He wasn't strict or mean or anything, just a very patient, "that's not how I work." Now, he will say, "you know how it works in here." LOL, I still try to make him be magic and fix everything.
As far as the caring part, I'm guessing that my therapist would tell you, gently, that his caring is part of the healing. That acknowledging that we do have a relationship, and that we need to take care of the relationship, is a key part of the work. It use to make me really uncomfortable to talk about how I felt about him, he would put it out there and see if I would respond to it. Or I would say, "I need therapy" and he would say, "you need me" etc. It is a trust thing, I think. It is now so much easier, though not completely easier, to say, "I missed you over the weekend." It feels good and is scary as hell.
I hope you are able to have a frank conversation with her. It sounds like you do miss her, you do care about her and you do have a relationship, as hard as it has been. Good boundaries are important and if she is confusing you, she needs to know that. Good luck. I'd like to hear how it goes.
Daisy
Posted by fallsfall on October 29, 2004, at 21:34:56
In reply to maybe I'll go back.....but with conditions, posted by shrinking violet on October 28, 2004, at 18:54:38
Good for you!
I like #1 a lot. I'm surprised she doesn't do this. My therapists have been maddeningly good at making me sweat through the silences.
I think she may have a problem with #3, but the two of you can use your "rule" as a place to start talking about it.
Be patient with yourself in expecting to react in session to things. In the beginning you might need to write down how you are feeling afterwards, and then read it at your next session. I agree that holding things until you are face to face could be important (if you can hold them that long!!).
And yes, I would be really surprised if she wouldn't see you again.
Best of luck, and let us know how it goes.
Posted by annierose on October 30, 2004, at 8:06:21
In reply to Re: maybe I'll go back.....but with conditions » Poet, posted by shrinking violet on October 29, 2004, at 17:19:42
Good Luck SV -
I like your rules too. I think they show growth.
And I'm sure she will want to see you again. She does want to help you through this. Someone else on this board wrote that the relationship with the T "is" the therapy, and I do think that is so so so true. Of course, gaining insight and support on our other baggage is helpful, but a huge part of our inner change is with the T. Keep us posted when she replies.
Posted by shrinking violet on October 30, 2004, at 13:54:34
In reply to Re: maybe I'll go back.....but with conditions » shrinking violet, posted by Daisym on October 29, 2004, at 18:35:36
Thank you everyone. I HOPE she sees me....The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that she won't. :-( Yes, she's caring and invested, but that only goes so far. I feel like I've pushed and pulled so much that I'm pretty close to breaking her, and that she's going to draw the line now. I really hope I get one more chance with her, and I hope hope HOPE I can do and say what I want to, and make this work. Thank you all for your support. I'll post if/when I find out what she decides. Keep your fingers crossed for me, k? ;)
SV
Posted by daisym on October 30, 2004, at 15:14:21
In reply to Re: Daisym, Fallsfall, Annierose, posted by shrinking violet on October 30, 2004, at 13:54:34
SV,
I hope she does too. BUT, if she doesn't, I want you to go back to your original email and reread what you wrote. You had very good reasons for stopping and they were about her and not you. I'm concerned that you've turned this all around to be "your fault" and if she declines to restart that you will take this as evidence that you are bad or hopeless. You aren't either. Circumstances are often out of our control, as in, you can't control her behavior, only how you responded to it. Please hear me, I hope she does see you at least one more time. But I really do think you have to be careful about how big you've now built this up. You miss her, you hurt and so it is easy to take it on yourself because it hurts even more to "blame" her.
Just me worrying about you...
Daisy
Posted by shrinking violet on October 31, 2004, at 10:52:04
In reply to Re: Daisym, Fallsfall, Annierose » shrinking violet, posted by daisym on October 30, 2004, at 15:14:21
Thank you Daisy, I appreciate your concern. And you're right...I'm not sure what else to say because I DO blame myself, I know that it IS my fault because I couldn't talk to her and because I react irrationally to situations, and she has every right to be sick of it. True, I can't control her behavior, but I also contribute to it in some way. I cause her reactions by being so difficult, etc.
Thank you Daisy. I appreciate your thoughts. I'll try my best to keep them in mind.
SV
> SV,
>
> I hope she does too. BUT, if she doesn't, I want you to go back to your original email and reread what you wrote. You had very good reasons for stopping and they were about her and not you. I'm concerned that you've turned this all around to be "your fault" and if she declines to restart that you will take this as evidence that you are bad or hopeless. You aren't either. Circumstances are often out of our control, as in, you can't control her behavior, only how you responded to it. Please hear me, I hope she does see you at least one more time. But I really do think you have to be careful about how big you've now built this up. You miss her, you hurt and so it is easy to take it on yourself because it hurts even more to "blame" her.
>
> Just me worrying about you...
> Daisy
Posted by Dinah on November 1, 2004, at 18:08:03
In reply to Re: maybe I'll go back.....but with conditions » shrinking violet, posted by Daisym on October 29, 2004, at 18:35:36
Mine wouldn't allow a list of rules or conditions either. He'd fold his arms and tune me out. But if I talk about things in a conversational way, and discuss why I'd like change here or there, he often does change. I always call him trainable, and that's true to a point. But he wouldn't call it trainable, and he wouldn't say he was agreeing to do things my way. He'd say he was invested in the relationship and was willing to work on it.
This is the end of the thread.
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